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Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:23:33 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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This thread is to discuss whether or not Adam and Eve has fleshly skin or not.
I'm going to cut and copy posts from another thread to get this one going to we have a continuum.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:27:06 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Hmm... interesting.
That's not how I understand Genesis 1–3. God created them as humans, from the beginning. He didn't wait to give them skin until after the fall.
He clothed them with animal skins, not human skins.
I'm curious as to how you came to understand the passages as you have described in the text I quoted. Pray tell!
Why would you say animal skins? The scriptures don't tell us that.
Gen 3:21
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
But, let's back up for a minute, look at what vs 19 says:
Gen 3:19
By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
I think we get these ideas into our heads of how things were because of picture books and artwork. If we look at what it really says--we see a very different picture. So, that's why I said what I did. 
Do you have a scripture that says clothing was made from animal skins in the Garden that I missed?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:28:06 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Hmm... interesting.
That's not how I understand Genesis 1–3. God created them as humans, from the beginning. He didn't wait to give them skin until after the fall.
He clothed them with animal skins, not human skins.
I'm curious as to how you came to understand the passages as you have described in the text I quoted. Pray tell!
Why would you say animal skins? The scriptures don't tell us that.
Gen 3:21
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
But, let's back up for a minute, look at what vs 19 says:
Gen 3:19
By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
I think we get these ideas into our heads of how things were because of picture books and artwork. If we look at what it really says--we see a very different picture. So, that's why I said what I did.
Do you have a scripture that says clothing was made from animal skins in the Garden that I missed?
Well, I thought it was in one translation, but I cannot find it. So... I guess it's just what I've been taught since I was child and what I understand now. And seeing illustrations of Adam and Eve before the fall may have some influence on that, but it's hard to know... since their having human flesh was how I understood the story from the very first time I heard it or read it.
And your comment was the first time I had ever heard or read such a concept.
I have heard the teaching that God's making animal-skin clothes for Adam and Eve was the first shedding of blood and foreshadowed Christ's sacrifice -- and was the reason that blood sacrfice was part of the sacrificial system in the Old Testament.
And I don't want to derail the thread, but since I work with this story every year, my curiosity definitely was piqued.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:29:15 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
And the Lord God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and his wife.
-Genesis 3:21 (New Living Translation)
Then the LORD God made clothes out of animal skins for the man and his wife.
-Genesis 3:21 (Contemporary English Version)
God made leather clothing for Adam and his wife and dressed them.
-Genesis 3:21 (The Message)
And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them.
-Genesis 3:21 (Young's Literal Translation)
For Adam also and for his wife the Lord God made long coats (tunics) of skins and clothed them.
-Genesis 3:21 (Amplified Bible)
Innocent blood was shed for their sin, just as it was for us on the cross.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:34:35 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
This thread is to discuss whether or not Adam and Eve has fleshly skin or not.
He created Adam from the dust. He, Eve, and all mammals had skin. Without it, they would have been a bloody mess and horrible to look at.
I have provided verses above to show that "skins" are understood to be those taken from one or more animals. It is the first word-picture of Jesus in that innocent blood was shed as a result of their sin. And like the shedding of Jesus' blood, God took the initiative by providing the sacrifice Himself.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:41:51 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
And the Lord God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and his wife.
-Genesis 3:21 (New Living Translation)
Then the LORD God made clothes out of animal skins for the man and his wife.
-Genesis 3:21 (Contemporary English Version)
God made leather clothing for Adam and his wife and dressed them.
-Genesis 3:21 (The Message)
And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them.
-Genesis 3:21 (Young's Literal Translation)
For Adam also and for his wife the Lord God made long coats (tunics) of skins and clothed them.
-Genesis 3:21 (Amplified Bible)
Innocent blood was shed for their sin, just as it was for us on the cross.
Euty, I take issue with your translations...I think they take great liberties in changing the original meanings. Maybe not for this particular passage but definitely in other ones.
I looked up skin in Hebrew
1) skin, hide
a) skin (of men)
b) hide (of animals)
According to the definition it could be either or. Now I'm not saying that this completely correct. I ran across this the other day preparing for another bible study and thought it was interesting.
I studied it how I presented it here. I looked up dust (being a literal translation for soul as well as clay, mortar, dirt) and I looked up skin. I poured over the scriptures challenging myself on what I had always believed.
One other interesting thing to note about the animals is: No animal had been killed yet for food or for any other use in the Garden. They ate from the trees only. Blood wasn't introduced until AFTER they were put out of the Garden.
Elena, I think you mentioned the blood sacrifices, that would fall exactly in line after the removal of the Garden, but as of yet, the sin could not have been atoned for. I most definitely agree that the blood is a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice for us.
I just think this is pretty interesting stuff. I certainly can't take a hard edge on it because I really just don't know for sure.
It's (to me) one of those things we kind of skip over because it's how it's always been. kind of like portraying Christ as a white man. (United States, don't know how that works in other countries).
Either way, it's a good discussion and I hope to learn more.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:44:25 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
He created Adam from the dust. He, Eve, and all mammals had skin. Without it, they would have been a bloody mess and horrible to look at.
You might think that, but Adam was created in the image of God--so would that feasibly be a bloody mess? That's just kind of gross to think about....
Maybe you saw that the literal translation for dust was soul??
quote:
And like the shedding of Jesus' blood, God took the initiative by providing the sacrifice Himself.
Now that is an interesting concept that I had not thought of! I'll definately have to think on that.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 5:45:56 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
I'm sorry, but what????????????? Why would their skin be any different from ours?
They weren't ever supposed to leave the garden, so they would really have no need for a protective covering such as we have.
They disobeyed and screwed it up, so for that they got flesh that dies.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 7:28:17 PM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I looked up skin in Hebrew
1) skin, hide
a) skin (of men)
b) hide (of animals) -
Your assertion intrigued me so I looked it up too. The Hebrew word translated skin in Genesis 3:21 is or, which means a skin. In the New American Standard Bible or is translated with the following English words:
hide - 4 times
hides - once
leather - 15 times
skin - 65 times
skins - 13 times
In view of the fact that three out of the five English words refer to animal skins, I guess there is reason to believe that that's the kind of skin God clothed Adam and Eve with after they realized they were unclothed.
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greatdivide46
For who can eat and who can enjoy life apart from Him?. -- Ecclesiastes 2:25 (HCSB)
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 8:21:34 PM
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stampinlady
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Where in the world does this kind of thinking come from? I've never heard of such nonsense. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but ... Why would God create them without skin if He knew full well that they'd be leaving the garden?
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Deb
I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality .... Acts 10:34
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 8:44:13 PM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
This thread is to discuss whether or not Adam and Eve has fleshly skin or not.
I'm going to cut and copy posts from another thread to get this one going to we have a continuum.
Genesis 2:20-25 state that Adam had flesh:
20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
What do you believe this flesh was?
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 8:49:50 PM
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crankius
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Ge 3:21 - Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
The term "tunic" is tntk, according to Strongs:
1. tunic, under-garment
1. a long shirt-like garment usually of linen
King James Word Usage - Total: 29
coat 23, garment 5, robe 1
This doesn't seem to mean skin attached to their bodies/part of their flesh, but rather an outer garment of skin.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Church Covenants
wepanicinapew
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 8:49:53 PM
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benelchi
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While the Hebrew word עור can refer to either an animal skin or a human skin, the word כתנות never refers to either the skin on a living animal or the skin of a human. In Genesis 3:21 we have the construct "כתנות עור/garment of skin" and this phrase would NEVER refer to human skin unless maybe someone made a coat from the skin of a dead human. The idea that this was Adam and Eve's skin is pure nonsense.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 8:51:57 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Ge 3:21 - Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
The term "tunic" is tntk, according to Strongs:
1. tunic, under-garment
1. a long shirt-like garment usually of linen
King James Word Usage - Total: 29
coat 23, garment 5, robe 1
This doesn't seem to mean skin attached to their bodies/part of their flesh, but rather an outer garment of skin.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 9:00:18 PM
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ManimalX
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Eutychus, crankius, and benelchi were exactly right. There is no reason to think they were provided anything but clothing made from animals skin.
What I want to know is what you gain from claiming that Adam and Eve had no skin?!? I'm sorry, but that is just.... weird. Again, there is no reason to make this passage mean that God covered two slimy, bloody, goopy skinless humans with actual skin.
You are taking one word and trying to create a whole scenario out of it. Remember that you have to read all Scripture in context!. The context of God clothing Adam and Eve is that they were naked (Gen 3:10-11). "Naked" is eyrom. It means "naked". It doesn't mean "skinless" It only means "naked". As in, without clothes. Not without skin. Without clothing.
Also, you can't isolate the word `owr ("of skin") without its partner kethoneth ("tunic" or "long shirt"). God made a tunic or a long shirt out of ANIMAL skins in order to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness. This is the initial example of God providing a covering for sin, though it was just a type, not the final covering that would ultimately be provided by the blood of Jesus. The wages of sin is death. God allowed that death to be postponed through the death of an animal instead, but animal blood was only a type of the Death that would make life possible again.
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"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/14/2009 9:05:03 PM
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crankius
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quote:
What I want to know is what you gain from claiming that Adam and Eve had no skin?!?
I wonder this too.
I remember someone once posting that Adam was a hermaphrodite. That was an interesting discussion.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/15/2009 4:54:18 AM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
And the Lord God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and his wife.
-Genesis 3:21 (New Living Translation)
Then the LORD God made clothes out of animal skins for the man and his wife.
-Genesis 3:21 (Contemporary English Version)
God made leather clothing for Adam and his wife and dressed them.
-Genesis 3:21 (The Message)
And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them.
-Genesis 3:21 (Young's Literal Translation)
For Adam also and for his wife the Lord God made long coats (tunics) of skins and clothed them.
-Genesis 3:21 (Amplified Bible)
Innocent blood was shed for their sin, just as it was for us on the cross.
Who said anything about the animals being killed for clothing being "innocent?"
I wasn't aware that we rated animals on scale of guilt-and-innocence.
Animals, apparently, are capable of sinning or being righteous.
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/15/2009 4:55:52 AM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
I'm sorry, but what????????????? Why would their skin be any different from ours?
They weren't ever supposed to leave the garden, so they would really have no need for a protective covering such as we have.
They disobeyed and screwed it up, so for that they got flesh that dies.
That is a very limited perspective on the function of skin.
There are three layers to skin(epidermis) :
-epidermis
-dermis
-hypodermis
Function :
Briefly ,
-our skin is rich with nerve endings including thermoreceptor (which allows us the sense of touch/pressure and feel cold/heat ) ,
-blood vessels/arterioles near its surface ( which may dilates or constrict to allow more/less blood to pass through it ,thus more /less heat to be loss from the body ) .These blood vessels also allows you to blush , which is why when you finish exercising , you blush and lose heat from the surface of your skin -and you feel hot .
-shunt vessels , which, function like blood arterioles, except that when it dilates , it allows less blood to pass through the arterioles , thus less heat is lost
- sebaceous gland, which excrete sebum , an oily layer which protects the skin from bacterial attack and keep the skin surface moist and soft
, preventing it from cracking .
-sweat glands , which secrete sweat , helping the skin inits function as an excretory organ
-skin hairs , which stands on its ends when we feel cold , thus protecting us to a small extent from cold .Our real hair , in our head , is the one which protects us from heat to a large extent and function almost like mammal's fur .
Our skin is important is body's homeostasis activity .It acts as thermoregulator , helping in the regulating of body temperature .It also plays a small part as excretory organ as excess mineral salts , water and little bit of urea is excreted through sweat on the surface of skin , which is why we smell so bad after we sweat .
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/15/2009 5:04:22 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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Rawr.ben, that's interesting about the layers of skin, but I'm not clear on how it ties into the post you quoted and responded too. Will you please clarify for me?
I think the skin thing is important because everything changed after the sin. Their whole perspective of and understanding changed. They now understood good and evil. Their flesh would have been perfect before the fruit-after the fruit, it could die where as before, it could not.
I'm not convinced that they looked like us. Why, in a perfect place would they need a covering for protection? What would they have been protected from?
Maybe, like Stampinlady said, "I'm thinking too much"....
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/15/2009 5:09:57 AM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Rawr.ben, that's interesting about the layers of skin, but I'm not clear on how it ties into the post you quoted and responded too. Will you please clarify for me?
The quote says (and I quote the quote!) "they would really have no need for a protective covering such as we have."
I showed that skin served far more purpose than just a protective covering. I would think that Adam and Eve would have a need for being able to feel things. Or, in God's perfect plan, man had no nerve endings? No way to really regulate body temperature. No ability to sweat?
quote:
I'm not convinced that they looked like us. Why, in a perfect place would they need a covering for protection? What would they have been protected from?
Again, skin is much more than just a protective covering, and without it, you would lose a lot of what it means to be fully human.
Additionally, you ask, "What would they need protecting from?"
Don't you think that maybe things like . . . rocks were on the ground? What if they tried to grab a pineapple to eat without any covering? That would just tear straight into nerves and blood vessels.
Unless you want to argue that they were potentially superheroes impervious to being poked by a pine needle.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Adam and Eve's skin - 10/15/2009 5:19:27 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
I showed that skin served far more purpose than just a protective covering. I would think that Adam and Eve would have a need for being able to feel things. Or, in God's perfect plan, man had no nerve endings? No way to really regulate body temperature. No ability to sweat?
That's my point-in a perfect place, why would that have been necessary?
I wouldn't go so far as to call them superheroes. However, what gives us the idea or notion that there was any sort of pain in the garden?
I think we are assuming that the garden was full of and like the earthly realm now.
It would appear that the characteristics of the garden are much more in line with a heavenaly comparison rather than a earthly one.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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