Border Agents Thrown In Jail/ Illegals Attacking Our Brave Rising
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[Poll]
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Border Agents Thrown In Jail/ Illegals Attacking Our Brave Rising
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| He deserves a medal, not beatings/Multiple Choice |
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| Why aren't these 2 men more closely protected |
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| Real amnesty (a prez pardon) is needed for these heroes |
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| They shouldn't even be in jail |
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| Salutes to all protecting America |
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| Other/Explain |
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Total Votes : 73
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(last vote on : 12/19/2007 10:34:23 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 1:36:05 AM
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pthalomarie
Posts: 174
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It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense. You may not see much harm in lying about shooting a drug suspect, but if it were someone who turned out to be innocent, or your own son, you'd be very angry if the police acted as if it had the liberty to lie without being accountable about it.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 1:58:19 AM
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brooklynsblessed1
Posts: 4101
Joined: 5/21/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pthalomarie
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense. You may not see much harm in lying about shooting a drug suspect, but if it were someone who turned out to be innocent, or your own son, you'd be very angry if the police acted as if it had the liberty to lie without being accountable about it.
Government admits lying about jailed border agents
Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas
A Department of Homeland Security official admitted today the agency misled Congress when it contended it possessed investigative reports proving Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean confessed guilt and declared they “wanted to shoot some Mexicans” prior to the incident that led to their imprisonment.
The admission came during the testimony of DHS Inspector General Richard L. Skinner before the Homeland Security Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, according to Michael Green, press secretary for Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas.
Culberson was questioning Skinner about a meeting DHS officials had Sept. 26 with him and three other Republican congressman from Texas, Reps. Ted Poe, Michael McCaul and Kenny Marchant.
WND previously reported that at that meeting the DHS Inspector General’s office asserted it had documentary evidence Ramos and Compean:
1. confessed to knowingly shooting at an unarmed suspect;
2. stated during the interrogation they did not believe the suspect was a threat to them at the time of the shooting;
3. stated that day they “wanted to shoot a Mexican”;
4. were belligerent to investigators;
5. destroyed evidence and lied to investigators.
Under questioning by Culberson, Skinner admitted DHS did not in fact have investigative reports to back up the claims: “The person who told you that misinformed you,” Skinner reportedly replied.
This prompted a startled and angry response from the congressman.
“You lied to me and you lied to all of us,” Culberson charged. “Your office tried to paint a picture of Ramos and Compean as dirty cops, and now you come before this committee and tell us you never had the information to back up those claims.”
Ramos and Compean began prison sentences last month after their actions in the shooting of a drug smuggler who was granted immunity to testify against them.
Responding to Skinner’s testimony yesterday, Poe said it “explains why DHS has been stonewalling Congress.”
“DHS didn’t turn over the reports to us to back up their September 26 accusations for one simple reason – the reports never existed,” the Texas congressman said.
“Why did it take DHS four months to admit their error?” he asked. “I wonder how much more has DHS told the public and Congress about Ramos and Compean that simply isn’t true?”
Poe said he’s determined to get to the bottom of DHS’s claim.
“I expect this new revelation will lead to a lot more questions before we’re done,” he said.--more on above link
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 3:31:37 AM
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Giulia
Posts: 906
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
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Well it doesn't surprise me at all, you put a cop in prison then you better also offer him protection, chances are he may of put one of the inmates in prison, sometimes there is a degree of solidarity amongst criminals, more so than I have found in the general community.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 7:32:03 AM
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olddude
Posts: 101
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense.
Can you name them?
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 9:29:16 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3862
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: olddude
quote:
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense.
Can you name them?
I believe beating suspects and lying about it are both criminal offenses. That said, prisoners should be afforded reasonable protection from fellow inmates. Inmates are assessed upon entry to the system and some are assigned to special sections if they are deemed at risk. Same is true for child sex offenders,ets.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 9:35:02 AM
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rnershigh
Posts: 1574
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: DC metro area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pthalomarie
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense. You may not see much harm in lying about shooting a drug suspect, but if it were someone who turned out to be innocent, or your own son, you'd be very angry if the police acted as if it had the liberty to lie without being accountable about it.
These border agents did not commit a criminal offence. They were doing their job. The suspect ran and didn't comply with the officers who were trying to arrest him. The suspect attacked one of the officers and then ran. Yes, one of the agents shot him, but if he really wanted to kill him he could have. He just disabled him so they could arrest him. I mean, law enforcement officers do know how to aim and fire their weapons.  If these officers had really abused their authority and beat this guy or something, yes they would deserve their fate.
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O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 9:50:20 AM
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pthalomarie
Posts: 174
Joined: 4/12/2005
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As always, there's more to these stories than one side likes to disclose:
No pardon required
"FOR AN AGENT of the Mexican government, Johnny Sutton speaks pretty good English.
That's the title that anti-immigrant zealots hung on the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Texas after prosecutors in his office convicted ex-Border Patrol agents Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos of shooting 15 times at an unarmed suspect who was running away. Sentenced to 12 years and 11 years in prison, respectively, the former agents are now behind bars."
"According to the evidence presented at the trial, including the agents' testimony and their statements after the incident, here are the facts: On Feb. 17, 2005, at about 1 p.m., Compean and Ramos were on duty along the U.S.-Mexico border when they observed a suspicious vehicle -- a van that turned out to be loaded with more than 700 pounds of marijuana. The driver -- later identified as Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila -- jumped out of the vehicle and tried to run back into Mexico. Ramos and Compean both testified that they made a point of looking at the suspect's hands and saw no weapon. Compean fired at least 14 rounds and Ramos fired once. Ramos wounded the suspect and saw him limp into Mexico. The agents then collected the shell casings and filed false reports, trying to cover up the incident."
(rnershigh, note how many aspects of your post were incorrect.)
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 9:56:10 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3862
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
quote:
ORIGINAL: pthalomarie
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense. You may not see much harm in lying about shooting a drug suspect, but if it were someone who turned out to be innocent, or your own son, you'd be very angry if the police acted as if it had the liberty to lie without being accountable about it.
These border agents did not commit a criminal offence. They were doing their job. The suspect ran and didn't comply with the officers who were trying to arrest him. The suspect attacked one of the officers and then ran. Yes, one of the agents shot him, but if he really wanted to kill him he could have. He just disabled him so they could arrest him. I mean, law enforcement officers do know how to aim and fire their weapons. If these officers had really abused their authority and beat this guy or something, yes they would deserve their fate.
They were CONVICTED. That means they were found guilty of committing these crimes. Unless they appeal and have their convictions overturned, they will remain CRIMINALS.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 10:03:51 AM
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olddude
Posts: 101
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
I believe beating suspects and lying about it are both criminal offenses.
Which shows how little you know about this case
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 10:03:59 AM
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pthalomarie
Posts: 174
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Also, it looks as though for once, conservatives aren't lockstep on the wrong side of an issue:
From the National Review
"A solid law-and-order conservative, Sutton’s position, United States Attorney for the Western District of Texas, is a unique perch from which to appreciate hundreds of dedicated Border Patrol agents, to grasp in a real way — not a bandwagon way, but a rubber-meets-the-road way — that these men and women truly are our last line of defense against the hordes for whom our political elites are determined to put out a big, fat welcome-mat reading “AMNESTY.”
So why are some Border Patrol agents vilifying Sutton today?...Because two rogues who had no business wearing badges and carrying guns have managed to entangle their gross malfeasance in the impassioned politics of immigration, that’s why.
Here’s the dirty little secret the agents’ partisans never tell in their relentless media rounds. You want to be mad about a miscreant like Aldrete-Davila getting away with importing scads of marijuana into Estados Unidos? Then be mad at … the “heroes.”
The rogue duo had two easy opportunities to arrest Aldrete-Davila: First, when he attempted to surrender and Compean decided it would be better to smash him with the butt of a shotgun than to put cuffs on him, as it was his duty to do; and then, when the “heroes,” having felled the unarmed, fleeing suspect with a bullet fired into his buttocks, decided to leave him there so they could tend to the more important business of covering up the shooting.
Since it’s hard to decipher the facts amid the noise, it’s worth remembering that a jury of twelve impartial Texans convicted the agents of almost all the charges, beyond a reasonable doubt, after a two-and-a-half week trial. Many complain, with some force, about the aggressive charges brought by the government against Compean and Ramos, but you don’t have to like this case to understand that — barring some demonstration of irrationality (and there has been none) — the factual findings necessary to that verdict merit respect. They are certainly more reliable than hype from those with an ax to grind."
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 10:36:42 AM
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olddude
Posts: 101
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: olddude
quote:
I believe beating suspects and lying about it are both criminal offenses.
Which shows how little you know about this case
See Post # 10. perhaps you are unfamiliar with the judicial process in the US. 
Not as unfamiliar as you appear to be with this case. From your post you seem to not even know what they were convicted of.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 1:09:24 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3862
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: olddude
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: olddude
quote:
I believe beating suspects and lying about it are both criminal offenses.
Which shows how little you know about this case
See Post # 10. perhaps you are unfamiliar with the judicial process in the US.
Not as unfamiliar as you appear to be with this case. From your post you seem to not even know what they were convicted of.
In the United States, a conviction refers to being found guilty (in this case by a jury in Texas). By definition, a conviction requires that the perpetrator had been charged with at least one crime. In this case a jury convicted the agents on eleven of twelve charges, including assault with a dangerous weapon, assault with serious bodily injury, obstruction of justice. These are considered crimes in the United States.
Now, also in the US, defendants may appeal a conviction. A judge must be presented with some evidence that the conviction was in error or that new information woul;d possibly lead another jury to reach a different verdict.
Many people seem to think a pardon is in order. A pardon does not mean the crime(s). did not take place, but that, in this case, the President believes the perpetator has redeemed himself or something to that effect. Presidents often save their pardons for the final days of their administration to avoid any backlash or outrage that may result.
Civics class will meet again tomorrow.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 1:25:48 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1112
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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cow257...OJ was found innocent in a court of law. Does that mean he actualy was inocent? Those who disagree with the death penalty cite those who are actualy innocent of their crimes being put to death. It does happen. So the reality is in today's world, just because you have a guilty verdict, does not mean in the end that they are guilty.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 2:27:19 PM
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ctipton
Posts: 1035
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense.
Inmate administered beatings, rapes and murders are cruel and unusual punishment. Even if one is sentenced to prison, they should be safe from the other inmates. The situation in prison is totally unacceptable.
Un-Acceptable!
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 3:28:33 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10862
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
Now, also in the US, defendants may appeal a conviction. A judge must be presented with some evidence that the conviction was in error or that new information woul;d possibly lead another jury to reach a different verdict. If the lies of the Homeland security dept didn't happen and the judge had not heard those lies, then these two men would be out of prison awaiting their appeals.
Don't ya get it people? The four US Congressmen were LIED to!
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 3:34:13 PM
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brooklynsblessed1
Posts: 4101
Joined: 5/21/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Now, also in the US, defendants may appeal a conviction. A judge must be presented with some evidence that the conviction was in error or that new information woul;d possibly lead another jury to reach a different verdict. If the lies of the Homeland security dept didn't happen and the judge had not heard those lies, then these two men would be out of prison awaiting their appeals.
Don't ya get it people? The four US Congressmen were LIED to!
^^^More than the four in the transcripts of DHS' testimony on Capitol Hill, but Congressman Hunter was lied to by the Bureau of Prisons & the federal prosecutor may have lied or covered up alot of facts. The illegal drug smuggler was not only given immunity, but a GREEN CARD, flew around and may have transported more illegal drugs into our soverign nation since..this is a developing story w/ relooks at evidence, medical records, etc. being requested by congressman.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 3:41:54 PM
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brooklynsblessed1
Posts: 4101
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: olddude
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: olddude
quote:
I believe beating suspects and lying about it are both criminal offenses.
Which shows how little you know about this case
See Post # 10. perhaps you are unfamiliar with the judicial process in the US.
Not as unfamiliar as you appear to be with this case. From your post you seem to not even know what they were convicted of.===
+++THEY WERE CONVICTED OF A PACK OF LIES AND COVER-UP BY THE BUSH APPOINTEE, excerpts from transcripts from congress which surfaced yeterday:
“You lied to me and you lied to all of us,” Culberson charged. “Your office tried to paint a picture of Ramos and Compean as dirty cops, and now you come before this committee and tell us you never had the information to back up those claims.”
Ramos and Compean began prison sentences last month after their actions in the shooting of a drug smuggler who was granted immunity to testify against them.
Responding to Skinner’s testimony yesterday, Poe said it “explains why DHS has been stonewalling Congress.”
“DHS didn’t turn over the reports to us to back up their September 26 accusations for one simple reason – the reports never existed,” the Texas congressman said.
“Why did it take DHS four months to admit their error?” he asked. “I wonder how much more has DHS told the public and Congress about Ramos and Compean that simply isn’t true?”
Poe said he’s determined to get to the bottom of DHS’s claim.
“I expect this new revelation will lead to a lot more questions before we’re done,” he said.
Andy Ramirez, who has been involved with the case as chairman of Friends of the Border Patrol, told WND the DHS’s actions “represent obstruction of justice, and they should be held in contempt of Congress, and, if possible, prosecuted to the full extent of the law.”
“This admission today is yet more proof of how they are willing to distort the facts, as I have charged all along, in order to ensure a conviction,” he said. 
_____________________________
BROOKLYN'S BLURBS..Check Us Out W/ Your Morning Joe..& Before You Say Your Prayers @ Night:
Could Obama strike down all state pro-life laws?
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 3:48:44 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10862
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brooklynsblessed1
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Now, also in the US, defendants may appeal a conviction. A judge must be presented with some evidence that the conviction was in error or that new information woul;d possibly lead another jury to reach a different verdict. If the lies of the Homeland security dept didn't happen and the judge had not heard those lies, then these two men would be out of prison awaiting their appeals.
Don't ya get it people? The four US Congressmen were LIED to!
^^^More than the four in the transcripts of DHS' testimony on Capitol Hill, but Congressman Hunter was lied to by the Bureau of Prisons & the federal prosecutor may have lied or covered up alot of facts. The illegal drug smuggler was not only given immunity, but a GREEN CARD, flew around and may have transported more illegal drugs into our soverign nation since..this is a developing story w/ relooks at evidence, medical records, etc. being requested by congressman.
Well, four from Texas anyway.
These guys need to be let out ASAP!
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ex-Border Agent Said Beaten in Prison - 2/7/2007 5:00:39 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1306
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brooklynsblessed1
quote:
ORIGINAL: pthalomarie
It's sad that the guy got beat in prison, but he did commit a criminal offense. You may not see much harm in lying about shooting a drug suspect, but if it were someone who turned out to be innocent, or your own son, you'd be very angry if the police acted as if it had the liberty to lie without being accountable about it.
Government admits lying about jailed border agents
Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas
A Department of Homeland Security official admitted today the agency misled Congress when it contended it possessed investigative reports proving Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean confessed guilt and declared they “wanted to shoot some Mexicans” prior to the incident that led to their imprisonment.
The admission came during the testimony of DHS Inspector General Richard L. Skinner before the Homeland Security Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, according to Michael Green, press secretary for Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas.
Culberson was questioning Skinner about a meeting DHS officials had Sept. 26 with him and three other Republican congressman from Texas, Reps. Ted Poe, Michael McCaul and Kenny Marchant.
WND previously reported that at that meeting the DHS Inspector General’s office asserted it had documentary evidence Ramos and Compean:
1. confessed to knowingly shooting at an unarmed suspect;
2. stated during the interrogation they did not believe the suspect was a threat to them at the time of the shooting;
3. stated that day they “wanted to shoot a Mexican”;
4. were belligerent to investigators;
5. destroyed evidence and lied to investigators.
Under questioning by Culberson, Skinner admitted DHS did not in fact have investigative reports to back up the claims: “The person who told you that misinformed you,” Skinner reportedly replied.
This prompted a startled and angry response from the congressman.
“You lied to me and you lied to all of us,” Culberson charged. “Your office tried to paint a picture of Ramos and Compean as dirty cops, and now you come before this committee and tell us you never had the information to back up those claims.”
Ramos and Compean began prison sentences last month after their actions in the shooting of a drug smuggler who was granted immunity to testify against them.
Responding to Skinner’s testimony yesterday, Poe said it “explains why DHS has been stonewalling Congress.”
“DHS didn’t turn over the reports to us to back up their September 26 accusations for one simple reason – the reports never existed,” the Texas congressman said.
“Why did it take DHS four months to admit their error?” he asked. “I wonder how much more has DHS told the public and Congress about Ramos and Compean that simply isn’t true?”
Poe said he’s determined to get to the bottom of DHS’s claim.
“I expect this new revelation will lead to a lot more questions before we’re done,” he said.--more on above link
So the plot thickens. I was listening to the radio today and apparently the illegal alien was able to sue America for getting shot in the rear when he tried t | | |
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