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Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/21/2009 11:52:15 PM
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richartrod
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Up until the year 2000, I used to be a part of the church that believes in a pre-tribulation, milennial rapture. I used to get caught up and scared to death of the likes of Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, Jack Van Impe and Grant Jeffrey as they held the newspaper in one hand and the Bible in the other, interpreting what's happening around us in the light of their interperetation of Bible prophecy.
So what happened in the year 2000 that made me a Judas of the prophecy movement? Y2K itself, that's what.
All of the above were making dire predictions of all the computers crashing because they would think "00" would be 1900, that the ensuing national chaos would be the perfect opportunity for Bill Clinton to declare martial law and force us into the one-world government, that we should stockpile our guns, gold and canned foods because currency and the economy would be no more, and on and on. It was bordering on the ridiculous.
At the same time, I read a book by Hank Hanegraaff called "The Millennium Bug Debugged", which documented the sloppy journalism, research and theology behind many of these popular teachers. I also started reading the Bible straight through from the Gospel of John to the end and then back through the Old Testament; in the process I came to the conviction that many, if not most, of the OT's prophetic books refer to Israel and Judah's fall, the Jewish people's exile into Babylon, return to the Holy Land under the Medo-Persian empire, and of course the coming Messiah. All in all, it made a lot more sense than the constant revisions and updates of the prophecy teachers mentioned above.
So I have left behind "Left Behind", so to speak. An amillenialist view is not politically correct in the evangelical world, but compared to the chaos and anxiety I used to be a part of, I have no regret over it. And besides, it is a legitimate theological worldview, held by R.C. Sproul and the late D. James Kennedy.
(I must also add that I have diabetes, and stress makes my blood sugar levels go into orbit. Abandoning the milennial view of the end times, and the teachers thereof, has been especially good for my glucose and overall health.) 
So now I have a few questions to ask:
- Are there any other ex-millenialists or prophecy followers who left those movements the same way I did?
- Do you believe amillenialists will be "left behind" if the Rapture really does happen as is popularly taught?
- Have disagreements on interpreting the end times caused divisions in your church, or broken friendships and family ties? It has for me.
Let me know what you think.
Rich Rodriguez
West Covina, CA
www.pandapolis.com
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 12:07:35 AM
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crankius
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quote:
Have disagreements on interpreting the end times caused divisions in your church, or broken friendships and family ties? It has for me.
I've heard of this happening, and I think it's tragic.
(Don't be surprised if your thread gets moved to the end times folder.  )
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 1:38:46 AM
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stephanos
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It should be noted that not all pre-millenialists are classic dispensationalists. Personally, I fall somewhere in the space between progressive dispensational Pre-millenialism and historic pre-millenialism. In terms of Israel I tend to side with progressive dispensaitonal pre-millenialism in that I do see a slight difference between the church today (not completely separate [They are linked together] but not "the church IS israel" as other eschatology views say), I also believe in a post-tribunal rapture (if there is a rapture at all) which is a hallmark of historic pre-mil.
Anyway, I just wanted to FYI you that not all pre-millers are crazy's like LaHaye, VanImpe, Scofield, ect. See as Historic pre-mill I have people like Charles Spurgeon, John Boyce, George Eldon Ladd, or if you want to go old school, Ireneaus, Justin Martyr, and a few others.
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 8:51:00 AM
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earthless
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Welcome to the fold (we have cookies...) .. though I am labeled to be a Partial-Preterist ala Hank Hanegraaff and R.C. Sproul.
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 9:05:50 AM
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Eutychus
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
Have disagreements on interpreting the end times caused divisions in your church, or broken friendships and family ties? It has for me.
The overwhelming majority of people in my church get their eschatology from pulp fiction like LaHaye's series and shock-and-awe sensationalists like Lindsey, Van Impe, and Hagee, including our pastor and ministerial staff. So, it's sadly wisest not to raise any questions against such odds and accepted authority.
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 9:38:06 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richartrod
Up until the year 2000, I used to be a part of the church that believes in a pre-tribulation, milennial rapture. I used to get caught up and scared to death .....
Why would you be more scared if there was going to be or not going to be a rapture.
If one is saved and being obedient to the Word they have nothing to fear.
If one is lost and/or not being obedient to the Word they ought to be shaking in their boots.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 11:45:45 AM
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mushhead
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quote:
Are there any other ex-millenialists or prophecy followers who left those movements the same way I did?
Do you believe amillenialists will be "left behind" if the Rapture really does happen as is popularly taught?
Have disagreements on interpreting the end times caused divisions in your church, or broken friendships and family ties? It has for me.
Question #1:
I used to believe in pre-trib rapture. When I began walking with God, pre-trib was the only view anyone I knew taught. I didn't know another view even existed. Then I heard a debate between Hal Lindsey and Walter Martin, in which Martin shredded Lindsey. So, I began studying the issue, now I am a "post-tribber."
I've heard Hanigraff discuss the content of his book "The Millennium Bug Debugged," but I haven't read it myself. I don't think the evidence Hanigraff cited supported his conclusion that the preterist view is the only correct interpretation of Revelation.
Question #2:
No one is going to be left-behind because of their beliefs about the rapture. The only thing that will cause people to be left behind is rejecting Jesus as Saviour.
Question #3:
Yes.
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Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 2:33:29 PM
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facedown
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no real division or confusion in my church, though i'm certain there are still yet several understandings. but we affirm one thing: He (Jesus) will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
that's about where it stops us anglicans to be honest, so if someone came in after reading a book or etc in on sunday morning for our time of discussion and tried to say "rapture this" or "rapture that", it probably just wouldn't be of much interest to any of us.
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 4:23:37 PM
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navyblueret
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richartrod, Shalom, and welcome.
You may be new to the forum, but apparently not new to Jesus (I presume).
Are you asking one question, or two. Rapture is, or isn't. Millennium is or isn't. Rapture is the only one that has an arguable chronology for happening involved, IMO. Is there even going to be a Rapture? Some say no ('harumph,' not even mentioned by name in the Bible). The other being that assuming the Rapture exists, when do it rapture, pre-Mil, mid-Mil, Post-Mil? (Oh, yes. or, 'aw' (not at all))
Millennium is referenced enough times to be witnessed as fact. People may twist God's word however they choose. We are judged individually, so no matter the mindset.
Rapture/snatching/gently hiding/whatever, may or may not exist. God/Jesus declares that He will keep His true believers out of (away from) the 'Testing' of the Tribulation, which happens prior to the Millennium, thus indicating that those self-same believers w i l l be taken away from..... Rapture is the wonderful word someone espoused to connote the action of removal. I believe (hope is a better word) that there will be something so wondrous happen, I choose to use 'Rapture.'
Will you 'aw'-types be left behind? I hope not, since it is only a method of saving His own, not a requisite for actually being saved from the 'testing.' The only difference between the 'aw's' and the 'yaw's' is the bugs in the teeth. I will achieve them because I will be grinning ear to ear, and the 'aw's' (no way types) will obtain their bugs in the teeth due to their expression of surprise, and wonder. The 'yaw's,' like me, will have a much more enjoyable ride.
And that is this old swab's way of saying 'Yeee-Haaa!' (Sailor for "I can Fly" and I don't even have to wave my arms).
In Messiah, His Shalom, and transportation. Arley
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In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
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(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 7:02:09 PM
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richartrod
Posts: 413
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Shalom back to you, my friend. You are a fellow mensch in the Messiah.
I posed my three questions to gauge the opinion of what has been in my experience a very divisive issue. The many and varied responses to this thread so far affirm its divisiveness.
As I see it, Jesus will indeed come back for his own, in the twinkling of an eye, faster than Warp Factor 10.
The millenialists/rapturists will look at our Lord's face, see heaven around them, and proclaim, "The rapture has happened!"
Meanwhile, the heads of amillenialists like myself and even Hank Hanegraaff will spin, then we will look at Jesus and ask, "Wh-wh-wh-WHAT happened?"
Then Jesus will shake His head, smile, and tell us all, "Now that all of you are home, none of that matters anymore."
No matter what your eschatology, when Jesus comes for us, we're outta here.
Thanks for your post.
Rich Rodriguez
West Covina, CA
www.pandapolis.com
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/22/2009 9:34:15 PM
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colliefan
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From: Raleigh, NC
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In regards to end times, this is what I believe
Finally Home
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 11:21:29 AM
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facedown
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doug
post #15
wow
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 1:10:44 PM
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DougHorton
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
doug
post #15
wow
?
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You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 1:42:17 PM
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Ps103
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Moved from Church to Prophecy & End Times.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 2:17:35 PM
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bob97
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I agree with rcjames...why should any position be frightening. It might be an unknown but so is each new day. God takes care of me…yesterday and tomorrow.
Bob
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 5:28:34 PM
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DougHorton
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quote:
Something to me seems really wrong with this picture.
You think so? So did I. That's why we changed churches.
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Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 5:33:15 PM
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richartrod
Posts: 413
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DougHorton,
I believe the "wow" may be a response to your unfortunate situation at that church you attended where their particular dispensationalism was strictly enforced.
Rich Rodriguez
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 5:48:04 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richartrod
So now I have a few questions to ask:
- Are there any other ex-millenialists or prophecy followers who left those movements the same way I did?
- Do you believe amillenialists will be "left behind" if the Rapture really does happen as is popularly taught?
- Have disagreements on interpreting the end times caused divisions in your church, or broken friendships and family ties? It has for me.
1. Yes. As I looked at Lindsey, et al more objectively I also studied more and came to believe that Revelation's cryptic nature make it difficult to understand beyond the theme of God triumphant over Satan. Why interpret the visions as symbolic, except for the time periods mentioned. 1,000 is ten to the third power. Ten is a number that represents completeness or an incalculable period of time. Three is also special, e.g., the Trinity.
2. No Christian would be "Left Behind"
3. It is a delicate issue among some family members and I have learned not to bother with the idea of a logical discussion.
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I know when there is a trouble, and when there is not a trouble, and you may rest assured that there is a trouble.---- Inspector Jacques Clouseau
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/23/2009 6:24:25 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
1. Yes. As I looked at Lindsey, et al more objectively I also studied more and came to believe that Revelation's cryptic nature make it difficult to understand beyond the theme of God triumphant over Satan. Why interpret the visions as symbolic, except for the time periods mentioned. 1,000 is ten to the third power. Ten is a number that represents completeness or an incalculable period of time. Three is also special, e.g., the Trinity.
2. No Christian would be "Left Behind"
3. It is a delicate issue among some family members and I have learned not to bother with the idea of a logical discussion.
Wow, Cow...I actually pretty much agree with you on this!
Numbers 2 and 3, definitely. As for number 1, I agree that much of Revelation is not only difficult to understand, but not meant to be fully understood until the time is right. Some things are to be taken literally and some symbolically...and I believe they're explained that way. It's not as if God is trying to "trip us up"...that's often what people think.
Regardless of my personal beliefs on the subject, the timing of the Rapture or the millenial kingdom is not something worth fighting over. I believe to know they will both happen, in God's time, is good enough.
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I desire to be strange to the world, so that I might be strong for Jesus.
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RE: Confessions of a Former Millenialist - 4/24/2009 10:24:52 AM
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Ps103
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Moderator's Note--Attention
Here are the questions asked in the OP:
quote:
Are there any other ex-millenialists or prophecy followers who left those movements the same way I did?
Do you believe amillenialists will be "left behind" if the Rapture really does happen as is popularly taught?
Have disagreements on interpreting the end times caused divisions in your church, or broken friendships and family ties? It has for me.
If the questions do not apply to your situation, this is no the thread for you. Please find a different thread to post in.
Thanks!
Do not reply to this message in forums or send me pms and emails about it. If you have a question or concern, please email community@salemwebnetwork.com
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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