Harold Camping is at it Again!

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Heavendweller -> Harold Camping is at it Again! (5/4/2009 4:50:55 PM)
Yesterday I happened to come across none other than Mr. Camping on the radio. To my chagrin, I discovered he's at it again. That's right, he has come up with a new date of Christ's return. Get ready folks. It's May 20, 2011. How does this guy stay on the radio? Why aren't more Christian pastors speaking out against this nonsense? In my area, his radio station comes in clearer than any other Christian radio station. Think of the many he is wrongly influencing. Heavendweller

Irish2 -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (5/6/2009 6:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Yesterday I happened to come across none other than Mr. Camping on the radio. To my chagrin, I discovered he's at it again. That's right, he has come up with a new date of Christ's return. Get ready folks. It's May 20, 2011. How does this guy stay on the radio? Why aren't more Christian pastors speaking out against this nonsense? In my area, his radio station comes in clearer than any other Christian radio station. Think of the many he is wrongly influencing. Heavendweller I completely agree with you, I listen to his show just for the entertainment value. His open forum show gets pretty heated when folks don't buy into his predictions. Peace

yohannan -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (5/7/2009 9:33:38 AM)
Hello all. Mr. Camping should realize that the return of Jesus is spoken that no one knows the day or the hour, yet we are given signs in the celestial events for the year 2013 and 2014. If the period of the great trial of the tribulation of the mark of the number of the name of the false prophet who confirms a covenant along with 10 worldwide leaders to restrict commerce worldwide to only those who take the mark in worship of the beast from the earth (for out of the dust of the earth we were made on the sixth day and will return to it when our time comes) begins at 2013 new moon Sabbaths (in season and out of season without regard to the new moon Sabbaths will Gospel be preached is Paul), then the period of the trial will last almost 4 years or 44 1/2 months as written and rapture does not occur until after this time is completed. War on the saints of God worldwide unto Martyrdoms is Prophesied and one must prepare for this struggle; mentally and spiritually. Those who did not love their lives so much as to shrink back from fighting for their Country and who choose a better Country which is the New Jerusalem Eve who is the mother of the seed of all of those who are among the Living for God is The God of The Living and not of the dead, all of God's Children are those who have enmity with evil and the Dragon as written in placing Faith in Christ Jesus. One could hope for the best which is The Coming of Our Lord Jesus and prepare oneself for the trial birthing pangs as well, for these last birthing pangs are worse as a Lady giving birth becomes more in pain at the very last. We have about 37-40 months until the New Moon Sabbath events in the Prophecy of the scroll of Moses come to pass. quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Yesterday I happened to come across none other than Mr. Camping on the radio. To my chagrin, I discovered he's at it again. That's right, he has come up with a new date of Christ's return. Get ready folks. It's May 20, 2011. How does this guy stay on the radio? Why aren't more Christian pastors speaking out against this nonsense? In my area, his radio station comes in clearer than any other Christian radio station. Think of the many he is wrongly influencing. Heavendweller

Eutychus -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (5/7/2009 9:45:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lelseep We have about 37-40 months until the New Moon Sabbath events in the Prophecy of the scroll of Moses come to pass. How is that any different than what Camping and others have done? Setting a day, month, and/or year are all warning flags of a false prophet!!!! Just curious, how many of you certain that the end will come before 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015 actually show a lack of sincere faith by funding pensions, spending money on insurance - of ANY kind, but especially life insurance - and have wills made out and/or have burial plots selected? When I believe God for rain, I carry an umbrella. IOW, I act according to my true belief. If truly believed in signs of celestial events for 37-40 months, I'd be spending all money not essential for food, clothing, transporation, and basic shelter on eternal issues, not laying up treasures in this life that can't possibly be of value in a couple of years.

stolar1962 -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (5/7/2009 1:04:11 PM)
could mr. camping be a duck.... because he's quackers! date setting is always a bad sign. i fhte speaker does it, avoid... The only sign we need to be on the lookout for are those which the Bible tells us will preceded His coming.

Paul_Jerome -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/23/2009 10:42:55 PM)
Mar 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. People have no problem with believing that God knew things that Jesus - who is the son of God – did not know. Read superficially, it would be understood to teach that Jesus didn’t know about the timing of the end of the world and God the Father did. That’s certainly the most popular understanding of that verse. I don’t believe that’s consistent with what the bible teaches about Jesus. What people overlook is that Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and the works were finished from the foundation of the world (Hbr 4:3). God paid the penalty of suffering death before the world was created. He was then raised as the Son of God and He is called the Son of God because God raised him from the dead (Rom 1:4). As further proof that this took place before anything was created, the bible tells us that all things were created by the Son of God (Col 1:16). So, then if the penalty of death was put upon God before the world was created and then God raised Him from death as the Son, what happened in AD 33 when Jesus the Son of God went to the cross? If the penalty had already been paid before the world was created why did Christ have to suffer? It was a demonstration of what had taken place before the world was and this so that everyone is without excuse (Rom 1:2). OK, now back to Mar 13:32 when that comment was made about Jesus not knowing ‘of the day and hour’. Like I mentioned, that didn’t have to do with the timing of the end, but rather it was speaking of the awful experience of judgment. God had already suffered that punishment (and was then raised from the dead as the Son of God) and at the time that the Son of God said that he didn’t know ‘of the day and hour’ He hadn’t been to the cross to suffer the punishment ‘of the day and hour’ as a demonstration. God the father had experienced the judgment but the Son of God did not yet know of it. And it’s not May 20, 2011 - it’s May 21, 2011. God Bless Everyone Reading.

yohannan -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/24/2009 2:22:56 PM)
With regards to times and seasons we have no need to write you for you know that the time will come at the appointed season is written. 2011 - 1999 = 12 years and two months give or take a couple of days. This number comes to 144 months which if multiplied by 1000 signifies what is at Prophecy where the two mounds or monies of time or mounts are The Witnesses. However, this dating is more a precursor warning sign for one wave, then another, and then sometimes a larger wave, and then an underwater earthquake which can cause a Psunami. Which is spelled Power or Prophecy of the Sun of or to Me. The Prophecy of the sun is written as the bird feast of the following event of Armageddon which can signify the continual processes that have occured across time in culmination event fulfillment, seeing that people struggle with spiritual realities and other peoples to overcome is Israel's name. Any of those who struggle with these, as all are not want to do, can and are of those under the banner of the Olive Garden who was renamed as overcoming under the banner of Love. For God is Love, and Love comes from God and The Kingdom of God is right at the door of the sheep pen at The Right Hand of God and The Power of God to carry out The Will of God for peoples everywhere in bearing the fruits to remain in the Garden in permanence at placement through seasons and times and with attention from the Gardener and birds is written. Many trees in a Garden, many Gardens planted, One Gardener, One Root the fulfillment of the promise of eternity. For it is the Psalm quoted that Messiah would send his angels to guard you in all of your ways and not to look down on anyone for one does not the Powers behind some things which would be the battle of guarding ones heart and mind in Christ Jesus in the struggle to overcome biases and unnecessarily judgmental ways while making a right judgment not with respect only to the mere appearances of things with regards to the ways of the vision of the outside of things in the maddening wine garden mixtures that present themselves for discernment. One must weigh things and hold to what was good in Truth, for as one believes it would be done to them in the likewise management of the justice in Moses. Yet, Blessed are the Merciful is written to gain Mercy. quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Yesterday I happened to come across none other than Mr. Camping on the radio. To my chagrin, I discovered he's at it again. That's right, he has come up with a new date of Christ's return. Get ready folks. It's May 20, 2011. How does this guy stay on the radio? Why aren't more Christian pastors speaking out against this nonsense? In my area, his radio station comes in clearer than any other Christian radio station. Think of the many he is wrongly influencing. Heavendweller

7OFUS -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/25/2009 3:41:05 AM)
What?[:(]

yohannan -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/25/2009 4:17:29 AM)
ORIGINAL: lelseep Hello all. Mr. Camping should realize that the return of Jesus is spoken that no one knows the day or the hour, yet we are given signs in the celestial events for the year 2014... For a Son remains forever is written, but he who sins is slave to sin and I have called you Family if God is Doing His Good Work in you unto completion to bear fruit that remains, we are His handiwork and that what was done may be shown to have been done in God and through God and by God who gives to each according to what can be done for apart from Me you can do nothing and everything that one does should be done as for The Lord in whatsoever capacity serving for the benefit of the peoples; and especially the body of Christ. Thus, if one is counted as son a son may not know the day or the hour to come at all because one does not know when the exact day or hour of the trials to come will come to an end. This Word would come to fulfillment regardless of time windows given for He would arise at a time that would not be known to His servants is written to check each one and The Father could give one words that none of your adversaries could resist is written, for there are ways that seem correct to some people at some times but, they followed precept is also The Prophets. If the period of the great trial of the tribulation of the mark of the number of the name of the false prophet who confirms a covenant along with 10 worldwide leaders to restrict commerce worldwide to only those who take the mark in worship of the beast from the earth (for out of the dust of the earth we were made on the sixth day and will return to it when our time comes) begins at 2014 new moon Sabbaths (in season and out of season without regard to the new moon Sabbaths will Gospel be preached is Paul), then the period of the trial will last almost 4 years or 44 1/2 months as written and rapture does not occur until after this time is completed. War on the saints of God worldwide unto Martyrdoms is Prophesied and one must prepare for this struggle; mentally and spiritually. Those who did not love their lives so much as to shrink back from fighting for their Country and who choose a better Country which is the New Jerusalem Eve who is the mother of the seed of all of those who are among the Living for God is The God of The Living and not of the dead, all of God's Children are those who have enmity with evil and the Dragon as written in placing Faith in Christ Jesus. One could hope for the best which is The Coming of Our Lord Jesus and prepare oneself for the trial birthing pangs as well, for these last birthing pangs are worse as a Lady giving birth becomes more in pain at the very last. We have about 37-40 months until the New Moon Sabbath events in the Prophecy of the scroll of Moses come to pass. quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Yesterday I happened to come across none other than Mr. Camping on the radio. To my chagrin, I discovered he's at it again. That's right, he has come up with a new date of Christ's return. Get ready folks. It's May 20, 2011. How does this guy stay on the radio? Why aren't more Christian pastors speaking out against this nonsense? In my area, his radio station comes in clearer than any other Christian radio station. Think of the many he is wrongly influencing. Heavendweller

7OFUS -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/25/2009 4:26:06 AM)
Ya. I know, should have went to bed hours ago. Good night all. God bless.

ManimalX -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/25/2009 6:45:33 PM)
lelseep: what is your native language?

TheosCentric -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/28/2009 6:59:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ManimalX lelseep: what is your native language? It's not Bible prophecy...

yohannan -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (6/29/2009 6:33:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ManimalX lelseep: what is your native language? One never heard of speaking in tongues? I am sure there are languages in the universe that many would call non discernible to their ways of thought or that their ear was listening for circumsizion is written to be careful how you listen. For as one believes, it may be done to them.

kelman -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/3/2009 3:17:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Paul_Jerome Mar 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. People have no problem with believing that God knew things that Jesus - who is the son of God – did not know. Read superficially, it would be understood to teach that Jesus didn’t know about the timing of the end of the world and God the Father did. That’s certainly the most popular understanding of that verse. I don’t believe that’s consistent with what the bible teaches about Jesus. What people overlook is that Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and the works were finished from the foundation of the world (Hbr 4:3). God paid the penalty of suffering death before the world was created. He was then raised as the Son of God and He is called the Son of God because God raised him from the dead (Rom 1:4). As further proof that this took place before anything was created, the bible tells us that all things were created by the Son of God (Col 1:16). So, then if the penalty of death was put upon God before the world was created and then God raised Him from death as the Son, what happened in AD 33 when Jesus the Son of God went to the cross? If the penalty had already been paid before the world was created why did Christ have to suffer? It was a demonstration of what had taken place before the world was and this so that everyone is without excuse (Rom 1:2). OK, now back to Mar 13:32 when that comment was made about Jesus not knowing ‘of the day and hour’. Like I mentioned, that didn’t have to do with the timing of the end, but rather it was speaking of the awful experience of judgment. God had already suffered that punishment (and was then raised from the dead as the Son of God) and at the time that the Son of God said that he didn’t know ‘of the day and hour’ He hadn’t been to the cross to suffer the punishment ‘of the day and hour’ as a demonstration. God the father had experienced the judgment but the Son of God did not yet know of it. And it’s not May 20, 2011 - it’s May 21, 2011. God Bless Everyone Reading. I agree that it's impossible for the Lord Jesus Christ to have not known something....still.. I'm confused by your last paragraph. If Mark 13:32 is speaking of experience and not time, then didn't you just say that Jesus experienced the wrath of God to pay for sins before the foundation of the world? Clearly, then Jesus would have already experienced judgment and then would know that "day and hour".

Paul_Jerome -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/4/2009 12:30:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kelman If Mark 13:32 is speaking of experience and not time, then didn't you just say that Jesus experienced the wrath of God to pay for sins before the foundation of the world? Clearly, then Jesus would have already experienced judgment and then would know that "day and hour". I certainly don't know everything about the Godhead - about how Jesus is the everalsting Father (Isa 9:6) and about how Jesus and the Father are one (Jhn 10:30) and many other truths I hope to learn, but I do know that in Mar 13:32 (and in other places) Jesus differentiates between the 'Father' and the 'Son' and so your question was/is answered in this way: Jesus had experienced judgment as 'God' but had not experienced judgment as the 'Son of God' at the time of Mar 13:32. To Everyone: Have a blessed 4th of July.

kelman -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/4/2009 3:20:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Paul_Jerome quote: ORIGINAL: kelman If Mark 13:32 is speaking of experience and not time, then didn't you just say that Jesus experienced the wrath of God to pay for sins before the foundation of the world? Clearly, then Jesus would have already experienced judgment and then would know that "day and hour". I certainly don't know everything about the Godhead - about how Jesus is the everalsting Father (Isa 9:6) and about how Jesus and the Father are one (Jhn 10:30) and many other truths I hope to learn, but I do know that in Mar 13:32 (and in other places) Jesus differentiates between the 'Father' and the 'Son' and so your question was/is answered in this way: Jesus had experienced judgment as 'God' but had not experienced judgment as the 'Son of God' at the time of Mar 13:32. To Everyone: Have a blessed 4th of July. Okay, I think I see what you're saying. Rom 1:4 says that the Lord is declared to be the Son because He was resurrected which, therefore, would make Him the Son "from the foundation of the world" since He is introduced to us as the "only begotten Son"(John 3:16). Is this what you mean? When the Lord is incarnated in 7BC, He is "already" the Son of God because He was resurrected from the dead "from the foundation of the world"? Still, wouldn't a "body" be necessary for this judgment and resurrection since Scripture says He bore our sins in His body? Is there any evidence that the Lord actually had a "body" prior to His incarnation and "from the foundation of the world"? Doesn't 1Peter 2:24 contradict the view that sins were paid for "from the foundation of the world"? Afterall, it does say Christ bore our sins in His own body on the tree. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. I know there are some difficult verses to reconcile, i.e., Rom 1:4; still, I'm not convinced this is the best resolution to the problem.

Retrobyter -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/4/2009 8:32:38 AM)
Shabbat shalom, kelman and Paul_Jerome. I think the problem is that we (the generic "we" as in "the majority of true believers, especially those who are called Christian") have boiled the Scriptures down to a nice-and-neat summary package called "the doctrine of the Trinity," rather than just taking the Scriptures at face value as we come to them. Thus, when we come to certain Scriptures like Mark 13:32 that don't seem to "fit the mold," almost as out-lyers in a tail of the normal distribution curve, we're faced with a dilemma. What do we do with these "stragglers?" Well, we could refine our doctrine about the Trinity to include these verses, like broadening the scope of our normal distribution curve to include a greater percentage of the curve, but then our nice-and-neat summary package starts to get a little messy. They are exceptions to our model that require the model to take on modifications. Too many modifications on the model and one is forced to re-consider the model! However, this begs certain questions: How many modifications on the model are "too many?" How severe are the modifications? Is there one modification too severe in quality? or is the quantity of modifications too severe? Just WHEN will we have to re-consider the doctrine about the Trinity? I.E., how "bad" does it have to get before one must re-consider? What I THINK you are coming to realize here is that TIME is a factor, even to God. Not that God does not KNOW or even "DECLARE the end from the beginning," but that He does not RECOGNIZE or ACKNOWLEDGE an event until it has happened. It may not be an irresistable dimension in which He exists, as it is for us, but it is still a dimension to Him that He can measure! Just a thought. Enjoy! In the Messiah's love, Roy

Paul_Jerome -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/4/2009 2:04:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kelman Doesn't 1Peter 2:24 contradict the view that sins were paid for "from the foundation of the world"? Afterall, it does say Christ bore our sins in His own body on the tree. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Kelman, excellent verse, and also agreeing with what I understand to be Retrobyter’s analysis of fitting everything in harmoniously to find truth (1Cr 2:13), I would start by noting that 1Pe 2:24 is preceded by and tied in to 1Pe 2:21 which states that ‘leaving us an example’ in the Lord Christ Jesus. The fact that Christ hung on a tree is a demonstration for the entire world that He was cursed by God (Deu 2:21-22, Gal 3:13). His death and resurrection in AD 33 was a ‘sign’ (Mat 12:39-40, Mat 16:4, Luk 11:29-30). Bear in mind that Christ spoke in parables (Mat 13:13, Mar 4:34) and the historical events recorded in the bible many times were parables. As mentioned above, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, suffered punishment on the cross as a sign - a demonstration - of what He had done before the world was. Let’s add these verses into our understanding of what happened in AD 33. In Jhn 19:30 He says: “It is finished” and He was still alive. The thief on the cross who was saved was told in Luk 23:43 “To day shalt thou be with me in paradise” and Christ’s flesh did not see corruption (Act 2:31). If His spirit left His body and went to paradise on that very day then it doesn’t sound like He was still being punished. I believe the bible teaches that Christ as God died before the world began and then was born unto us and died on the cross as a demonstration – a sign – pointing to what He has already done before the world was. Pro 19:19 A man of great wrath shall suffer punishment: for if thou deliver [him], yet thou must do it again. May 21, 2011 is the beginning of judgment day.

kelman -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/5/2009 4:53:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Paul_Jerome quote: ORIGINAL: kelman Doesn't 1Peter 2:24 contradict the view that sins were paid for "from the foundation of the world"? Afterall, it does say Christ bore our sins in His own body on the tree. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Kelman, excellent verse, and also agreeing with what I understand to be Retrobyter’s analysis of fitting everything in harmoniously to find truth (1Cr 2:13), I would start by noting that 1Pe 2:24 is preceded by and tied in to 1Pe 2:21 which states that ‘leaving us an example’ in the Lord Christ Jesus. The fact that Christ hung on a tree is a demonstration for the entire world that He was cursed by God (Deu 2:21-22, Gal 3:13). His death and resurrection in AD 33 was a ‘sign’ (Mat 12:39-40, Mat 16:4, Luk 11:29-30). Bear in mind that Christ spoke in parables (Mat 13:13, Mar 4:34) and the historical events recorded in the bible many times were parables. As mentioned above, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, suffered punishment on the cross as a sign - a demonstration - of what He had done before the world was. Still, we have 1Pet 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:". So, did Christ have a body(flesh) which was put to death "from the foundation of the world"? quote: Let’s add these verses into our understanding of what happened in AD 33. In Jhn 19:30 He says: “It is finished” and He was still alive. The thief on the cross who was saved was told in Luk 23:43 “To day shalt thou be with me in paradise” and Christ’s flesh did not see corruption (Act 2:31). If His spirit left His body and went to paradise on that very day then it doesn’t sound like He was still being punished. I don't see the relevance. Why would punishment still be needed after death on the cross? I agree Christ was in heaven in His soul existence as was the thief's - "to day". quote: I believe the bible teaches that Christ as God died before the world began and then was born unto us and died on the cross as a demonstration – a sign – pointing to what He has already done before the world was. Yes, I can see that some verses could lead to this conclusion; yet, my explanation would be that whatever God "knows" it's as if it already "was". To all intents and purposes it was accomplished by His very foreknowledge. That's how certain and perfect is God's knowledge that He can speak of future occurrences as having happened. Sort of like the prophecies of the OT or Jesus paying for sins that has as yet not been committed. Still, I've never been fully reconciled with the biblical terminology which calls the Lord Jesus Christ "the Son" or "begotten". So, your explanation is certainly one to consider, although, I'm loathe to take anything away from the cross experience. quote: Pro 19:19 A man of great wrath shall suffer punishment: for if thou deliver [him], yet thou must do it again. Surely this can't be a reference to Christ suffering punishment twice...once to pay for sins(from the foundation of the world), the second as a demonstration. It says a "man of wrath", a man who is vengeful, angry, etc. Help out peole like this and you'll be doing it again and again is pretty much what it means. How does Gal 4:4,5 affect your conclusion? "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.". This appears to be saying that Christ as the Son was sent "to redeem" not that He had "already" redeemed.

Paul_Jerome -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/5/2009 12:08:17 PM)
Proverbs are earthly stories with heavenly meanings. The first blush impression is not usually the spiritual understanding/meaning. The entire bible is written in this way to some degree. Here’s a verse I thought I understood: Pro 20:14 [It is] naught, [it is] naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth. When there is a buyer and a seller in a transaction, the buyer tells the seller that the price is no good or that the product isn’t worth it, etc. Then after some haggling the seller drops the price or otherwise gives the buyer a better deal. And finally, the buyer buys the product and leaves boasting to all his friends about what a great deal he got. But is that what the bible is really teaching? Is Pro 19:19 teaching that ‘Help out (angry) people like this and you'll be doing it again and again is pretty much what it means.’? I’ve already explained how I believe the bible teaches Pro 19:19 to be understood, but let’s look back at Pro 20:14 from a biblical understanding. Pro 20:14 [It is] naught, [it is] naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth. What are we buying and selling? Did you know that Jesus was described as a merchant man in Isa 55:1-2 ? We’re supposed to be buying and selling (albeit without cost) the Gospel. And what are we supposed to glory about? Jer 9:23-24 instructs us to glory (boast) not about this world but about knowing and understanding Him. So, what’s the ‘it is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer’ part about? No one wants the true Gospel. Many of them left Him (Jhn 6:53-66) because they say: ‘This is a hard saying; who can hear it?’ (Jhn 6:60). But it’s spiritual ears that must be given to that ‘buyer’ and then once that person is saved, then that person will glory of truth to others (1Cr 1:31). Anyways, that’s how I believe Proverbs are to be understood and the entire Bible was written in parables and a parable is a proverb (an earthly story with a Heavenly meaning). The cross was a huge event. The veil of the Temple was rent (Mat 27:51). A first run of the rapture took place when the bodies were resurrected to the Holy City which was in Heaven with God (Mat 27:52-53). Satan who was able to go into Heaven and accuse the breathren (Job 1:6) was cast out by the blood of the lamb (Rev 10:10-11). This took place at the cross. But the payment was made once as 1Pe 3:18 teaches and that payment as mentioned before was before the world was. God pays the penalty for someone’s sins but then He must actually save that person by applying the Word through the Holy Spirit. Those who have had their sins paid for and are elect of God but have not yet been saved are referred to often as widows, orphans, strangers in the land. In 1Pe 3:18 He is referring to our flesh and the quickening of our spirit: “…that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” This is consistent with how we as true believers live our lives, always being put to death in the flesh and living in the spirit (Rom 6:2-4) and as mentioned above, with Christ as the example and the ultimate example of the cross. Sorry for the long post I get carried away.

kelman -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/6/2009 3:15:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Paul_Jerome Proverbs are earthly stories with heavenly meanings. The first blush impression is not usually the spiritual understanding/meaning. The entire bible is written in this way to some degree. Here’s a verse I thought I understood: Pro 20:14 [It is] naught, [it is] naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth. When there is a buyer and a seller in a transaction, the buyer tells the seller that the price is no good or that the product isn’t worth it, etc. Then after some haggling the seller drops the price or otherwise gives the buyer a better deal. And finally, the buyer buys the product and leaves boasting to all his friends about what a great deal he got. But is that what the bible is really teaching? Is Pro 19:19 teaching that ‘Help out (angry) people like this and you'll be doing it again and again is pretty much what it means.’? I’ve already explained how I believe the bible teaches Pro 19:19 to be understood,.. Actually you haven't explained. You posted the verse as an evidence of the payment of sin and the demonstration of that payment. I don't think the phrase "yet thou must do it again." is sufficient reason to apply this to the atonement since Christ is not a man of wrath. I don't disagree that we must look for the spiritual meaning but I'm not sure that every verse lends itself to a spiritual understanding. quote: but let’s look back at Pro 20:14 from a biblical understanding. Pro 20:14 [It is] naught, [it is] naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth. What are we buying and selling? Did you know that Jesus was described as a merchant man in Isa 55:1-2 ? We’re supposed to be buying and selling (albeit without cost) the Gospel. And what are we supposed to glory about? Jer 9:23-24 instructs us to glory (boast) not about this world but about knowing and understanding Him. So, what’s the ‘it is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer’ part about? No one wants the true Gospel. Many of them left Him (Jhn 6:53-66) because they say: ‘This is a hard saying; who can hear it?’ (Jhn 6:60). Yes, people want to be associated with Christianity and the Lord's name "only let us be called by thy name"(Isa 4:1) but unfortunately they prefer their own version of it. quote: But it’s spiritual ears that must be given to that ‘buyer’ and then once that person is saved, then that person will glory of truth to others (1Cr 1:31). Or that buyer will continue to buy on the cheap and boast he has the "real" thing like the seven women of Isa 4. quote: Anyways, that’s how I believe Proverbs are to be understood and the entire Bible was written in parables and a parable is a proverb (an earthly story with a Heavenly meaning). Again, I don't disagree. Generally speaking, unless we find the spirtual meaning we haven't found the true message which is the Lord Jesus Christ. quote: The cross was a huge event. The veil of the Temple was rent (Mat 27:51). A first run of the rapture took place when the bodies were resurrected to the Holy City which was in Heaven with God (Mat 27:52-53). Satan who was able to go into Heaven and accuse the breathren (Job 1:6) was cast out by the blood of the lamb (Rev 10:10-11). This took place at the cross. We're on the same page here. Although, I promise you there are precious few on this page :) quote: But the payment was made once as 1Pe 3:18 teaches and that payment as mentioned before was before the world was. Hmm, I'm afraid this is where I jump off the page with you. quote: God pays the penalty for someone’s sins but then He must actually save that person by applying the Word through the Holy Spirit. Those who have had their sins paid for and are elect of God but have not yet been saved are referred to often as widows, orphans, strangers in the land. ...jumped back on..... quote: In 1Pe 3:18 He is referring to our flesh and the quickening of our spirit: “…that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” I would say this verse is referencing Christ "being put to death in the flesh". We aren't "put to death". Verse 19 also indicates this is speaking about Christ not us "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" quote: This is consistent with how we as true believers live our lives, always being put to death in the flesh and living in the spirit (Rom 6:2-4) and as mentioned above, with Christ as the example and the ultimate example of the cross. I think Rom 8:13 is closer to that idea. quote: Sorry for the long post I get carried away. Not at all, I enjoyed it. But, I still would like your thoughts on whether the Lord had a body of flesh "from the foundation of the world". This seems to be a prerequisite for the payment of sin but I think would come into conflict with other scripture.

ta_mosquito -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/6/2009 9:54:36 AM)
MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE Since this is a discussion about Harold Camping's teachings in general and not about the End Times specifically, I'm moving this from P&ET to The Church. Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.

Lady_Daffodil -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/7/2009 12:52:08 PM)
I'm with you, Heavendweller. I don't know how this guy stays on the radio either. I've heard parts of his program before and now anytime I hear his grating voice I change the channel, because he always manages to say something to upset me, the one that sticks in my mind being that all babies aren't saved, because if certain babies, if they were to live they would reject Christ As far as I'm concerned, that's a moot point. If a baby dies, then that child never will have the choice to either reject or accept Christ, they haven't had a chance to sin. I don't believe that God would condemn an innocent child for something they'll never have a chance to do. Anyway...I've heard this ad on Family radio about May of 2011 and it really bugged me that a supposedly Christian station would air this kind of drivel. What they're actually saying is that the Tribulation is going to come to an end on that date. EXCUUUUUUSE ME, but the Tribulation hasn't even started yet! It won't begin until Jesus comes back to get His church...and WE'RE ALL STILL HERE!! And after that, the Tribulation will last 7 YEARS! I agree that date setting is totally wrong, and that Christ himself doesn't know when He will come back. People talk about this being the End Times, but if you read Paul's Epistles, he referred to the times in which he lived as the End Times too! In God's eyes a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. The End Times started two thousand years ago and they're still going on. The Rapture could happen today, or it could happen a thousand years from now. That seems like a lot of years to us, but to God it's nothing! I'm not going to worry about when things are going to happen, I just want to trust in Christ and look to Him for help in living for Him!

earthless -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/7/2009 9:43:49 PM)
Harold Camping is a false prophet and a false teacher. His heretical doctrines go pass the line of demarcation between what is biblical Christianity and what is of the kingdom of the cults..

Paul_Jerome -> RE: Harold Camping is at it Again! (7/8/2009 12:33:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady_Daffodil If a baby dies, then that child never will have the choice to either reject or accept Christ, they haven't had a chance to sin. I don't believe that God would condemn an innocent child for something they'll never have a chance to do. Have you considered what the Bible states in Rom 9:12-13 ? Rom 9:11-13 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. And have you considered that mankind is cruel, yet with God there is mercy (2Sa 24:14)? Mankind teaches that hell is a place of physical torment for all eternity. Is that what the Bible teaches? Doesn’t the Bible teach that there is a limit to punishment? Deu 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, [and] not exceed: lest, [if] he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee. And with His stripes we are healed (Isa 53:5, 1Pe2:24). Now, getting back to Jacob and Esau - I was always puzzled by the reunion of Jacob and Esau in Gen 32 and 33. Remember that ‘God hated Esau’ (Mal 1:3). So I would have thought that Esau would be miserable with no blessings at all. Contrary to that thinking, the bible records the following at their meeting in Gen 33: Gen 33:9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself. Esau was seemingly blessed with everything he had. How was that the result of being ‘hated’ by God? The truth is that the expectation of the wicked perishes at the end of this world (Pro 11:7). They lose their inheritance (Pro 10:28). Hell is death and not a conscious existence of eternal suffering of stripes without end. And THAT is what happens to babies who die unsaved. They have no inheritance. They simply die. BTW, faith is work (1Th 1:3, 2Th 1:1, Rev 19:11). And we’re not saved by our works (Eph 2:8-9) Goodnight Brothers & Sisters.

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