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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 5:26:14 PM
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Abbreviated
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When I type church I am talking corporate worship in a building on Sunday morning.
I understand dancing privately or outside.
David was a man, but I've never seen a man dance in church. But I've only seen dancing a handful of times.
The last time dancing happened in our church was with our last pastor & it hasn't happened since.
I never saw dancing growing up in a Methodist Church. Didn't see dancing in church until I was 30.
I'm just wondering if it is a mainstream corporate worship activity.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 5:40:53 PM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
There are plenty of songs that include references to dancing before the Lord. However, I think it more likely that this refers to spontaneous outbreaks of dancing in a congregation or alone than the entire congregation having to sit by and watch one person doing their own special dance.
Could you name some of these songs.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 6:12:28 PM
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From: Kansas
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It seems so far that corporate dancing is a charismatic denominational thing. I don't have a problem with that. Is this dancing spontaneous ?
I understand dancing & the Jewish culture & feast dancing. Did they have choreographed ballet dances ? Did they wear leotards ?
I'm still looking them up, but it seems the OT scriptures given lean towards individuals dancing privately in worship or outside in a group. NT scripture given so far is in a family setting.
Those last OT scripture had to do with celebrating spoils of war. Can those be used to validate dancing in corporate worship ?
There just doesn't seem to be enough scripture there for me to see choreographed corporate worship being a given along with baptisms & communion.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 6:14:23 PM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
(Exodus 15:20; 2 Samuel 6:16; Psalm 30:11, 149:3, 150:4; Ecclesiastes 3:4; Jeremiah 31:13; 1 Samuel 18:6, 30:16; Luke 15:25)
The above are the scriptures I looked up.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 6:18:04 PM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
It does not take a lot of "Creative reading" (and observing the Greek) to see that Jesus in Luke 10; 21-23 was jumping up and down turning around and rejoicing greatly (Dancing in the Spirit?).
Thanks
RC
Then He turned to His disciples and said privately,
I don't see the jumping up & down ...
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 6:37:04 PM
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dianetavegia
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From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
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I am an old fashioned, conservative Southern Baptist. I much prefer hymns over the new praise choruses. So, now that you understand ME....
We have a lovely lady by the name of Anne Rice who interprets for those who cannot hear with American Sign Language. When Anne interprets the musical specials, I am enthralled with her movements! It is so obvious that she is singing (signing) unto the Lord with her hands. Her hands and arms, her whole demeanor is melodious and even looks like a dance unto the Lord.
I look at the heart of the person who is performing. We have older men who sing southern gospel songs or old hymns. Their voices cannot compare with those of a man half their age, but the look in their faces as they sing unto the Lord makes me feel God's presence in our sanctuary. The brush of angels wings, as it were.
Yes! We sway! Yes! We clap. No. We do not dance. But if someone feels led to dance before our Lord and worship our Lord with a heart after God's own heart, then I would be honored to be n that service.
A dance unto the Lord would not be one that was practiced or choreographed as much as one from the performers heart, don't you think?
King David danced unto the Lord in his underwear and in the streets. His wife, Michael, saw him through her latticework and it made her angry and sick to think he'd lower himself to dance with the 'household help/ servants'. Scripture goes into detail about this.
Psalm 149:3 Let them praise His name with the dance; Let them sing praises to Him with the timbrel and harp.
Psalm 150:4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 6:39:00 PM
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KingJamesBond
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Abbreviated,
So, after all of your posts and the posts of others......who is Lord of the dance?
Is it Jesus or Satan?
KJB
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 6:56:12 PM
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I think spontaneous spirit led dance could be led by Jesus/Holy Spirit. Expecially, if it was done as a group. I haven't witnessed that type of dance though on a Sunday morning or ever.
Leotard/bodysuit wearing choreographed individual dance on Sunday morning is too worldly for me. I don't think worship should make one cringe. Don't go to church to see people perform.
Not sure dance is a doctrine. I would rather watch a baptism or participate in communion. It seems more of a private act to me.
Dance in general has been hijacked by satan.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 8:22:56 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
Don't go to church to see people perform.
Do you feel the same way if your choir performs a number that they've worked on and practiced?
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 8:43:22 PM
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KingJamesBond
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Consecrated2God,
quote:
Do you feel the same way if your choir performs a number that they've worked on and practiced?
Singing in general has been hijacked by satan.
KJB
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Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 8:49:26 PM
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KingJamesBond
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Abbreviated,
quote:
I think spontaneous spirit led dance could be led by Jesus/Holy Spirit. Expecially, if it was done as a group. I haven't witnessed that type of dance though on a Sunday morning or ever.
Leotard/bodysuit wearing choreographed individual dance on Sunday morning is too worldly for me. I don't think worship should make one cringe. Don't go to church to see people perform.
Not sure dance is a doctrine. I would rather watch a baptism or participate in communion. It seems more of a private act to me.
Dance in general has been hijacked by satan.
I am reminded about people that tell me halloween is a day belonging to satan. I dont really see that it has to be that way. If we observe the day as to the Lord......how is it that satan could take it?
I heard of people handing out small gospel tracts along with candy and I even heard of people dressing up like John the Baptist etc.
I guess the same could apply to dance. Modesty of course is a Biblical principle.
I really dont see how or why dance in general could belong to satan.
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/18/2009 9:31:03 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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quote:
Do you feel the same way if your choir performs a number that they've worked on and practiced?
I was wondering the same thing.
If the church put on Christmas programs, Easter programs; isn't that going to watch a performance..?
Matthew
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 4:59:10 AM
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tsnody2001
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Diane,
very well put.
"Give me two songs and a sermon!" - Abbreviated
That is one of the problems with our church in these days. We put God in a box and our wrist watches are the box keepers. We want God to move, but He has to do it on our time schedule. We have become too religious, depending too much on our traditions and man-made "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots". We need to once again make our foundation the the LORD Himself and His Scriptures.
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During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 12:10:04 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Angelus00
Christmas programs, Easter programs and any other "program" is also not worship and should not usurp the focus of worship. Most times these types of programs are not scheduled during worship service but at time outside of "corporate" worship services.
Just my 2cent. 
As as for how I feel about music the choir practices? Well, if it's there ok and if it's not ok, but if it IS there it shouldn't distract so they should hit the right notes.
Hmm... we consider our presentations of choral and instrumental music during the Christmas season and during Easter to be the worship services -- we schedule them to be during the worship times. And our leadership works hard to plan presentations that help usher people into the presence of the Lord. These times are about lifting up the name of Jesus Christ, lifting up our praises to Him, and sharing the gospel.
What I do like about my church is that we do not often applaud. To me, applause is more about the person's or group's performance. Rather, we say, "Amen" if we feel that the message of the song or the feeling of the instrumental piece has been well conveyed to us.
Worship is far more about the heart of the worshiper than it is about the vehicle through which worship is done.
In fact, many ordinary acts and tasks in life can become a time of worship or a way to convey worship, when that is the person's intent and heart.
Same goes for a dance or movement..... I don't think a choreographed piece is less valuable than something spontaneous. They are just different modes; both can be worship; both have the potential to be more about self.
Why do we think planned = of the flesh and unplanned = of the Spirit ???
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 12:11:37 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
Why do we think planned = of the flesh and unplanned = of the Spirit ???
Good question. I know my husband plans his sermons--does that mean they are not of the Spirit?
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 12:25:42 PM
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Consecrated2God
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Good post, Elena.
To go back to something that was mentioned earlier:
One of the kinds of dancing I especially enjoy doing is Jewish dancing. I can tell you from experience that it does have learned steps and movements, and that some of them are similar to other steps from other kinds of dances. For example, the Mayim step (which means water) is very similar to what you would call the Grapevine if you were doing country line-dancing, or the pas de bourree if you were doing ballet.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 1:04:57 PM
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Dance for me falls in with speaking in tongues. It just doesn't happen in the churches we've been member of & we've lived in 5 states. Speaking in tongues needs to happen along with an interpretor.
I think dancing in leotard/bodysuit is a stumbling block. I am a visual person & know men are even more visual. So it basically comes down to erring on the side of caution.
There may be a difference between solo & group performances. They are all performances. I personally can do without Easter & Christmas cantatas. It seems like alot of time & effort expended for 1 hour.
I prefer in depth Bible study.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 1:23:36 PM
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So far, after almost 2 pages, I don't see dance in corporate worship as a command. I see it based on Jewish culture & maybe inferred or a preference.
Nobody has informed me of who decides what is worn ? That is probably the root of the problem with dance for me personally.
Modesty is too much of a problem in society.
This isn't a question of spontaneous vs choreographed dance, but why dance at all. Why offend someone ?
Never once have I seen dance led by a pastor.
I know we do alot of things the Bible is silent about. We sit in pews, use electricity, use pianos & organs.
Sitting in a pew can't be offensive unless you are naked then we are back to the modesty issue.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 1:41:58 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
So far, after almost 2 pages, I don't see dance in corporate worship as a command. I see it based on Jewish culture & maybe inferred or a preference.
So if something is not commanded then it should not occur in a worship service?
quote:
Nobody has informed me of who decides what is worn ? That is probably the root of the problem with dance for me personally.
Scripture is very plain about what is to be worn by Believers, where do you draw the lines?
quote:
Modesty is too much of a problem in society
Please expand on you version of modesty; what is, what isn't, etc?
quote:
This isn't a question of spontaneous vs choreographed dance, but why dance at all. Why offend someone ?
Why would a Believer be offended by someone else being excited and worshipping the Lord with much gusto?
quote:
Never once have I seen dance led by a pastor .
Please give Scripture where a Pastor is to lead anything except teaching?
quote:
I know we do alot of things the Bible is silent about. We sit in pews, use electricity, use pianos & organs.
Sitting in a pew can't be offensive unless you are naked then we are back to the modesty issue.
And many do not see how dancing bedfore the Lord can be offensive, unless, of course, it is done naked or with some sort of carnal sensuality.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 1:46:53 PM
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Abbreviated
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From: Kansas
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Let me ask this.
If you were sitting in church & a 16 yo looking 25 danced in a leotard/body suit would you consider it from Jesus or Satan ?
Would you be offended or not ?
Would you use MT 18 & go to her & suggest she wear something more modest ?
Would you sit there or get up & leave ?
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 2:18:38 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
Let me ask this.
If you were sitting in church & a 16 yo looking 25 danced in a leotard/body suit would you consider it from Jesus or Satan ?
Would you be offended or not ?
Would you use MT 18 & go to her & suggest she wear something more modest ?
Would you sit there or get up & leave ?
It's hard to say--I don't know what kind of leotard you are talking about. There are so many kinds out there.
[image]http://mom.rengawm.com/purefashion/dancers.png[/image]
These girls could be 16-looking 25 and wearing leotards. I don't know if you are offended at something like this, or if you have something else in mind.
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RE: Who is Lord of the Dance ? Jesus or Satan ? - 10/19/2009 2:19:16 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
Let me ask this.
If you were sitting in church & a 16 yo looking 25 danced in a leotard/body suit would you consider it from Jesus or Satan ?
Would you be offended or not ?
Would you use MT 18 & go to her & suggest she wear something more modest ?
Would you sit there or get up & leave ?
If I was consumed with lust; then someone dancing might bother me, but someone serously worshiping God would not in the least bother me.
I would not get up and leave for I would not want to distrub the moment of worshiping our Lord and Savior.
I mean seriously what are you trying to get at; if the person was 55 and looked like a NFL linebacker it would be alright, but an attractive young lady is of the devil; sounds like strange doctrine or personal problem to me.
Thanks
Rc
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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