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3 days and 3 nights - 10/26/2009 7:44:41 PM
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rogertorres
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Question about the 3 days & 3 nights as described in Jonah and all the catholic church... IF.. Jesus dies on good friday, and Rose on Sunday thats only 2 days and 2 nigts??? so did he rise on Monday?
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 10/26/2009 10:55:47 PM
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navyblueret
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rogertorres
Question about the 3 days & 3 nights as described in Jonah and all the catholic church... IF.. Jesus dies on good friday, and Rose on Sunday thats only 2 days and 2 nigts??? so did he rise on Monday?
rogertorez, shalom, and welcome to the Forum.
You have to look at time as does the Jew/Israeli, the day starts at full sunset, to full sunset.
IMO, the best way to count the days is to count backward. We know that the women went to the tomb before sunrise on day one (Sunday morning for we Gentiles), so Sunday 'day-time' could not be counted, as He was risen and gone before the sun shown.
The first day backward, would then be Saturday (#3), Friday (#2), and Thursday (#1) (note: part of a day counts as one day to the Jewish folks). Jesus died, and was buried before sunset on Thursday, dying at 'Even' (approximately 3PM), and buried before, say, 6:30PM+-. Remember, also, that Israeli's could separate and count days (light) separate from Evenings (dark), which, also can take some getting used to.
To double the witness of correctness, count the nights (sunset to sunrise), with Saturday (#3), Friday (#2), and Thursday night (#1). We have Jesus Dead and Buried three days and three nights.
Counting in the manor of the Gentile, we seem to forget how to count 1, 2, 3; or 3, 2, 1. The Jews were very good at counting, since they did not name the days, or months. Only we Gentiles name everything after Pagan Gods, and people. 
Some will counter that the crucifixion was on 'Good Friday,' but they do err. Nissan 15, the first day of Unleavened Bread, is treated as a Sabbath, the day after Passover, when the Perfect lamb is sacrificed. I don't have the time tonight, but Jesus filled the five days of the Passover sacrifice, including the days of 'watching' the lamb from the 10th to the 14th, the Wave offering of First Fruit, on Sunday morning just after sunrise, well, there is an interesting study.
Hope I have been of some help to you.
In Messiah, His Blessing, and Adoption into His Royal Family. Arley
< Message edited by navyblueret -- 10/26/2009 11:03:27 PM >
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/1/2009 5:44:01 PM
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cornergas
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Wednesday..the passover-Crucifixion-Jesus placed in tomb late in the day..as evening approached
Thursday...annual Sabbath
Friday..Women buy spices and prepare them
Saturday ...Weekly Sabbath..Jesus resurrected late in the day as evening approached.
Exactly three days and three nights as per His promise!
At dawn on the first day of the week women go to tomb..it is empty..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/1/2009 6:14:44 PM
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navyblueret
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cg, Shalom.
As I understand the Jewish way of counting, the day an even happens on is always day one, even if it only has one hour (+-) in it (Full sunset). Therefore Thursday, 'Even' (3PM apx) is day one. Western counting, calls for a full 24 hours to pass from the moment of the event, so as to say one 'day' has passed. It just doesn't work that way in Israel.
Check with any Rabbi, with this question: 'If a child is born on Shabbat (Saturday (not mentioned)), what day would be day eight, and the circumcision be performed on?' He will, if I am right, answer that the circumcision will take place on Shabbat. Let me know if I am wrong, but I have been of this time calculating for, well, a number of years now, and would be surprised if this old sea-dog had to learn a new trick about counting.
Matter of fact, I think I will approach a Rabbi, on line, that I do not know, and see what he says, just for my own edification.
In Messiah. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/1/2009 6:29:43 PM
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teacher1982
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I'm not Jewish, but one thing that helped me to understand the way God thinks of days is in Genesis during the creation when He said, "The evening and the morning was the first day". When I realized that, I understood the crucifixion.
We now think of a day beginning at midnight and going for 24 hours until the next midnight, but that's not how the Jews think of a day.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/1/2009 9:07:56 PM
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navyblueret
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teacher1982, Shalom.
What you say is as I see it, but you say incompletely, which opens up the whole thing to more debate. Say it from start to finish, so the others can comprehend your offering, please. I do believe you see it as I do, so I cannot put words in your mouth. Please restate, and perhaps, some will see how Hebrew counting works. (Fingers crossed)
In Messiah. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/1/2009 9:40:11 PM
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teacher1982
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quote:
What you say is as I see it, but you say incompletely, which opens up the whole thing to more debate. Say it from start to finish, so the others can comprehend your offering, please. I do believe you see it as I do, so I cannot put words in your mouth. Please restate, and perhaps, some will see how Hebrew counting works. (Fingers crossed)
Go ahead and explain it because I am sure that you can do it better. I understand in my mind and heart, but don't know the correct words to explain it. When I realized, though, that God called a day "the evening and the morning", it was a "light-bulb" moment.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/1/2009 9:40:34 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moved from General Faith to Christian Doctrine.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 1:36:40 AM
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Johnny_
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Great question from the OP. The bible says Jesus Christ died on the preparation day which is the day before the Jewish Sabbath. We know the Jews traditionally observed their Sabbaths on Saturdays. Hence, Jesus must of died on Friday and rose on the first day of the week which is Sunday. The problem is Friday through Sunday morning is not 3 full days. Here is the answer: According to the Latin Calender, a partial day is considered a full day. The writers of the four Gospels must have also believed this to be true.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 10:12:06 AM
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bob97
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Passover is a High Sabbath, so the preparation day falls before a Sabbath (High Sabbath).
In Messiah,
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 5:27:40 PM
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navyblueret
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Teacher1982, Shalom and I will try.
Johnny, Shalom, and this might help you understand (offered as best I understand):
The Jewish day starts at 'full' sunset, and continues until 'full' sunset. the period is separated into two parts, 'Evening,' sunset to sunrise, and 'Day,' sunrise to sunset. I will address the Light (Day) part.
As a rule, any event transpiring during the light hours of Day, is marked as that day being numbered as "One." Zero is, as with Western thought, only a marker for the decimal point. The difference is that in the West, say for birth, the baby is 'weeks,' or 'months,' old, and becomes 'One year old,' one year into life, where in Jewish counting the baby is 'One year old,' during the first year, and becomes 'Two years old,' when the Westerner is becoming 'One year old.' Both systems, though using differences in actuarial counting, see the same: On that given day, it is the first day of the event, no matter what hour the event starts.
Preparation day is the day before Shabbat/Sabbath, no matter when the Shabbat is celebrated. Every Week/Seven, has Shabbat on the Seventh Day (Saturday, starting Friday Sunset), but there are also other days 'counted,' and/or 'recognized' as Sabbath's. Day One of Feast of Unleavened Bread (Matzot-1), Nissan 15, is one of these, so in this case, it appears there are two Sabbaths, Saturday, and Friday (which would start at sunset, Thursday). Thursday would be the last of the days to be the Day of Preparation for Sabbath, and also in the month of Nissan, be Pesach (Passover),,,and Passover, Nissan 14, must be the fourth day after the selection of the Pascal Lamb, which a bit earlier is indicated as being on the First day of the Seven (Sunday), and the same morning, about 9AM, coincides with the High Priest entering Jerusalem with the Pascal Lamb, headed for Temple mount; taking the very same path and destination as did Jesus, since He is the One and Only Pascal Lamb of God, and the Jews had been rehearsing this event for hundreds of years (private note: sadly, they didn't recognize the actual event, but continued to see it as a rehearsal).
We have another day of the week to work with, to triangulate the day of crucifixion, and that be the Harvest 'Wave Offering' for the Harvest of First Fruits, which falls on the 'First day,' following the Sabbath following Passover. In this case there are two Sabbaths, Matzot, and weekly Shabbat. Which one must be used? The counting of the fifty days of the Omer, now comes into play as to which Shabbat is used. (another note: Pentecost (Shavuot) is the fiftieth day 'after' the weekly Sabbath that follows Passover, not fifty days after Passover, so Pentecost can actually fall on a different number after Passover, up to 56, but is always the fiftieth day after the Sabbath that 'follows' Passover. (a bit redundant, but also ofter misstated)).
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven Sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Pentecost, fiftieth day after the Shabbat following Passover, forces the Shabbat to be recognized as day one of the Omer, as the Sunday of the Wave offering, daytime following the resurrection (during the Evening of day-1 starting Saturday after sunset, but before sunrise). The Shabbat spoken of is the Weekly Shabbat, not Day-one of Matzot (unleavened bread) feast.
Jesus entered Jerusalem on Nissan 10 (Sunday), was 'watched' as the Pascal lamb was, for four days, Nissan 13, ate Seder Meal with the twelve, on the very beginning of the Day of Preparation, Nissan 14, after sunset Wednesday, taken, later that night, tried, beaten, crucified, died, and buried, Nissan 14, before sunset. The count is: Day-1. Jesus is in the tomb three days and three nights. Counting Thursday (part of a day) as day one, add Friday and Saturday (day-times) to obtain three 'days.' Second witness the count with night-times: Friday evening (actually Thursday night, Western speaking), followed by Saturday and Sunday 'Evenings,' (all happening prior to sunrise Sunday morning), and this count witnesses to the daytime count.
Jesus resurrected during the night of Sunday Evening (or Saturday night, Western thinking), so He could fulfil the Mikraw (Convocation) of Waving the Omer of Corn (actually wheat), on Temple mount at approximately 9AM by the High Priest, by ascending up to Heaven, taking the Saints He has rescued from Sheol, and come back to present Himself to the Disciples. And, the rest of the story is for another Thread. 
I hope this all makes sense. I should write up an account of this, so as to have it fine tuned and ready to answer questions about it, but do not consider myself sufficiently knowledgeable to know enough to teach it, only help people sort out part of the mystery.
In Messiah, His Teaching, and Understanding. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 6:04:19 PM
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Johnny_
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Please read this article I posted earlier. I think it is very helpful and unbiased.
quote:
ORIGINAL: BibleTools.org
Preparation Day
All four gospel writers mention that Jesus was tried, convicted, crucified, and buried on a preparation day. Without any further clarification, one would assume that they meant a Friday, the weekly preparation day before the Sabbath. But can other days be considered preparation days as well?
Yes, indeed! God Himself gave the instructions about the use of the preparation day to the Israelites before they reached Mount Sinai (Exodus 16:23). The Jews later considered this to be so important that they made sure each of the holy days, which are also Sabbaths, was preceded by a preparation day. Since the holy days can fall on any day of the week, the preparation day can fall on any day of the week as well.
This is very relevant to the Passover. Not only is the Passover a festival in its own right, it also functions as the preparation day for a holy day, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. According to the calculated Hebrew Calendar, Passover can fall on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Sabbath. Clearly, our Savior was crucified on a Passover day (Matthew 26:2). Thus, it was on one of these days of the week that Jesus was killed and buried.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 7:08:37 PM
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navyblueret
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Johnny, Shalom.
There are a few things I am concerned about. First, and by far foremost, is that you are trying to justify the Bible by using a calendar that was invented a considerable number of centuries after the death and resurrection of Jesus. By the time the calendar was invented, as ingenious as it is, no one knew which years should be leap years, for sure, since before the Rabbinical calendar, no one knew if there was to be an Adar-Bet, until the month of Adar, and they could see if the Barley was Abib (harvest able within two weeks/Sevens). If the Barley was not Abib (on Adar 28), Adar-Bet was declared, and they enjoyed another month of Adar-ll ('Bet' = 2). (Note: as of this moment in time, the mechanical calendar says we have just entered the day of Cheshvan 16, when in reality we just entered Cheshvan 14 (according to the New Moon sighting over Jerusalem), and has had that error margin since before this past Month One, Nissan.) The mechanical/Rabbinical calendar proved great until Israel was 'Reborn,' in 1948, but now they can go back to God's system, if they but would, even if they could not print their calendars but on a 'if/only basis, controlled each month by the New Moon (Limiting, at best). I subscribe to: www.Karaitekorner.com to know when the New Moon is sighted, and other information.
We do have excellent reference to what day Passover fell on the year Jesus was crucified, as I noted in my previous post. Please read it, at what-ever speed necessary, to be able to maintain a good mental picture, or even write it down in graphic form, and you will see that I am correct. If you cannot, that is fine. It even took me a number of attempts before the chronology and events fit together in my Western oriented mind.
Based upon my study, of the Bible, and of other Jewish writings, the sequence I espouse is correct. Jesus was NOT crucified on Wednesday, nor on Friday, but on Thursday. That is the only day that fits ALL the criteria, as stated in TORAH, or reported, in New Testament. No other source, saying differently, is correct.
Should my words seem confusing, please let me know which statement, and I will try to rephrase, for clarity.
In Messiah. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 7:34:35 PM
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Johnny_
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I think its best we leave it as unknown instead of trying to pinpoint one specific day. Please read this article http://www.gotquestions.org/three-days.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: Gotquestions.org
The Bible does not explicitly state on which day of the week Jesus was crucified. The two most widely held views are Friday and Wednesday. Some, however, using a synthesis of both the Friday and Wednesday arguments, argue for Thursday as the day.
Jesus said in Matthew 12:40, “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Those who argue for a Friday crucifixion say that there is still a valid way in which He could have been considered in the grave for three days. In the Jewish mind of the first century, a part of day was considered as a full day. Since Jesus was in the grave for part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday—He could be considered to have been in the grave for three days. One of the principal arguments for Friday is found in Mark 15:42, which notes that Jesus was crucified “the day before the Sabbath.” If that was the weekly Sabbath, i.e. Saturday, then that fact leads to a Friday crucifixion. Another argument for Friday says that verses such as Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22 teach that Jesus would rise on the third day; therefore, He would not need to be in the grave a full three days and nights. But while some translations use “on the third day” for these verses, not all do, and not everyone agrees that “on the third day” is the best way to translate these verses. Furthermore, Mark 8:31 says that Jesus will be raised “after” three days.
In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and timeframe. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 7:52:43 PM
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Johnny_
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Like the above article states, its not all that important to know what day of the week (Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday) Jesus was crucified. I think we are missing the point and going off course. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. I'm satisfied with this answer.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/2/2009 11:38:42 PM
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navyblueret
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I agree with you wholeheartedly, Johnny. When someone, anyone starts dictating that Friday, or Wednesday is the absolute day, then my hackles rise up, and I enter the foray. Many years of study will not stand idly by and allow a person who cannot read the oblique messages, and determent truth. I leave it at that.
My apologies. I just had to erase/delete a very vicious attack on those I consider to be absolutely stupid, way beyond illiterate, who has not studied, but read, once or twice, and presume to be expert. Now, take me, for instance, I have read the Bible two or three times, yet no one wants to listen. Hmmm, perchance I should read it a fourth time?? Actually, between physical reading, studying, and Audio Bible, I have been through Gods word well over thirty times, actually more like fifty, but, I lost count. That does not make me an expert, only a good reader, and listener. Ooops,,, there I go again. I do not try to remember the Bible, but to live the Bible. I fear that makes it difficult to defend, not considering Book, Chapter, and Verse (I hate marching,,,,,too many years of it) 
I just love the thought that we all will laugh at our stupidity, once Jesus brands the Truth on our hearts, at the Bima Judgement.
In Messiah, His Blessing, and our soon learning of His Truth. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/3/2009 1:18:00 AM
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cornergas
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Johnny I agree, if we were to know the exact time it would be made plain to us in God's word. However, what is irritating, when we see a scenario where the date is set which contradicts Jesus statement of being three days and three nights in the tomb..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all.
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/3/2009 10:32:54 AM
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bob97
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It is my opinion that we as serious students of the bible should make every effort to fully understand the period and customs as well as the actual events that led up to the crucifixion of Christ. To blindly accept that the crucifixion day was Friday just because it preceded the weekly Sabbath displays a lack of interest on our part. Just accepting the position of the crucifixion as handed down without thinking it through is wrong. If we love Him we will want to understand the details of His death.
In Messiah,
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/3/2009 12:01:31 PM
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Lapidoth
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Words mean things.....................
We continually use "3 days and 3 nights."
I try to get our congregation to think in
terms of "3 nights and 3 days." And then we
go over the passages of a subject.
Here, we call it "left home running."
A perceived notion that keeps us from
seeing what is actually there.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: 3 days and 3 nights - 11/28/2009 12:02:25 PM
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pabrain
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quote:
3 days and 3 nights
Subject: A problem with time.
I believe that Jesus was crucified on Thursday, for the reasons given below.
Our Lord Jesus said that he would be in the grave for 3 days & 3 nights ie 72 hours, however, the Gospel accounts indicate a period of only 37 hours at most. Can any one help me resolve this.
Thank you
Edwin.
I was then asked the following question.
Please give the scripture verse where Jesus said three days and three nights, and also state how you arrived at 37 hours.
Thank you for your questions. For 3 days and 3 nights, please read Matt Ch 12 v 40. The 37 hours or thereabouts is arrived at as follows. Read the four Resurrection accounts and you will find that our Lord rose from the dead at around dawn on the first day of the week i.e. 12 hours from the end of the Sabbath, then there are 24 hours during the Sabbath, and may be up to an hour on Friday. In that part of the world, and at that time of the year sunset, and sunrise were close to 6 pm and 6 am. Jesus was on the cross from 9 am to 3 pm. Now read John Ch 19 v 31. There was about 3 hours to take down his body, prepare it for burial, transport same to the tomb, replace the stone, and seal it. I hope this helps you to understand my reasoning.
There were no further posts, so I said.
I am disappointed that I have not so far had any help with this question.
Allow me to suggest a possible solution.. First of all look at Exodus Ch 12 vs 1-20. and also Leviticus Ch 23 vs 4-8. Now what are the salient points. The Lamb is to be selected on the 10 th day, but not killed until the 14 th day, why 4 days?, answer later on. The Passover continues on into the Feast of unleavened bread which is a feast of 7 days duration, with a Sabbath at each end. Now what does this teach me about the week in which our Lord allowed himself to be killed. That there are 2 Sabbaths in this week, the Sabbaths are at the start, and finish ie the first, and last, the alpha, and omega. speaking of the Lord God himself. what is leaven but a picture of sin, therefore no leaven indicates sinlessness, what is the duration of this feast, 7 days, what does 7 indicate, Divine perfection ie sinless perfection.. So the lamb points forward to the time when the Lord God himself, who is sinlessly perfect will lay down his life during a week which has 2 Sabbaths in it.
Now let us see if the Gospel accounts indicate a 2nd Sabbath that week. Look first at John Ch 19 v 31. "for that Sabbath was a special Sabbath" why special?, could this suggest an additional Sabbath that week, well now look at Matt Ch 28 v 1. Here is a problem as most English translations read Sabbath, but have a look at the Greek text, and you will find that it is a plural noun ie Sabbaths. Now if we assume that Friday was the other Sabbath, and move the crucifixion back to Thursday, then we have 3 nights, but only some 61 hours, and still not 72 hours, however if you use Divine time measurement, and not human time measurement, ie "There was evening,and there was morning one day" and I can find 3 evenings, and 3 mornings then I will have 3 days. There is Thursday evening, Friday evening, and Saturday evening, Friday morning, Saturday morning, and Sunday morning 3 days.
Now what about that 4 days I mentioned earlier, if our Lord was killed on Thursday, then what day is 4 days earlier?, Palm Sunday of course. The Triumphal Entry and what else was also happening on that same day, every family in the land was choosing the lamb to be killed, and now that Jesus had presented himself to the Leaders of the Nation they had four days in which to examine him to see if there was any blemish, or spot, and when they could find none kill him.
May the Lord bless you all ,and keep you safe.
pabrain.
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