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RE: joyce meyer - 11/10/2009 10:49:16 PM
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TnTX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
quote:
tongues is just another parlor trick I am sure that there is an OP about speaking in tongues and it shouldn't be discussed here I would think.
However, your comment really bothers me because it is awfully close to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost since tongues is a work of the Holy Ghost and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unforgivable sin. I think everyone should be very careful when they speak against tongues and the Holy Ghost. It's dangerous.
I think you may have a misundertanding as to what the passage means about blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Questioning speaking in tongues would not fall under that category.
About Joyce, while I do agree that she says some good things, I think she is more of a motivational speaker than someone who leads others into the meat of God's Word. Good motivational speakers, even Biblical ones, are a dime a dozen. I want someone who KNOWS God's Word!!
She does say things that are bothersome, more and more as time goes on. Someone once said it to me like this: If someone mixed 1 Tbsp. of dog poop into some brownie mix and baked them, would you eat them? I mean, it's only 1 Tbsp of poop. No, you wouldn't eat them. That is how we should view false teaching. If Joyce mixes a little poop into her teaching, I need to count her as one I won't listen to anymore.
I do believe, personally, that speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit...it is "A" gift, one of many. It is not THE gift of all gifts or THE gift that every believer is given. She lied to the group last weekend when she told them that it was something they all should have and that they were missing out because of it. It felt like an Amway motivational thing where you leave all pumped up and realize it was over nothing. I've seen that type of heresy at work in other churches. People wind up idolizing the gift of tongues rather than focusing on Christ Jesus! People just need to be very careful. She's more of a feel-good encourager type person than someone who will help you get into the meat of God's Word.
I'm going to pray, though...I see what God could do through her without all of the extra stuff that is causing problems.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/11/2009 8:03:10 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 2045
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
quote:
tongues is just another parlor trick I am sure that there is an OP about speaking in tongues and it shouldn't be discussed here I would think.
However, your comment really bothers me because it is awfully close to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost since tongues is a work of the Holy Ghost and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unforgivable sin. I think everyone should be very careful when they speak against tongues and the Holy Ghost. It's dangerous.
And you need to be careful about accusing anyone of the unforgivable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was actually attributing the works of Jesus Christ to Satan.
"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."-Mark 3:28
Jesus said this in response to the Pharisees, who had called the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus cast out demons an unclean spirit.
Oh, and btw, not everyone who babbles in tongues is exhibiting a gift of the Holy Spirit. That gift is often contrived and abused and given way too much significance in some Christian circles.
Thanks for your testimony, TnTX. It has merit and I appreciate it.
Context is everything and Meyer continually (as all WOF teachers do) teaches the Scriptures out of context and by doing so, distorts and perverts God's Word. Thank God, He has given TnTX the insight and the wisdom to see this woman's teaching for what it is.
Edited to add Scripture reference I left out.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 11/11/2009 8:39:49 AM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/11/2009 7:32:29 PM
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teacher1982
Posts: 190
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quote:
If someone mixed 1 Tbsp. of dog poop into some brownie mix and baked them, would you eat them? I mean, it's only 1 Tbsp of poop. No, you wouldn't eat them. That is how we should view false teaching. If Joyce mixes a little poop into her teaching, I need to count her as one I won't listen to anymore.
I have heard this saying before and it is true. However, I wouldn't be able to listen to any preachers or teachers as all of them say something at some point in time that I do not believe lines up with the Word of God. If you think about it, you might not be able to name a preacher with whom you agree 100% either. It's a very difficult thing to find a preacher that preaches the Word just as we believe it.
I guess there is an OP about Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost somewhere. The only thing that I want to emphasize here is that it is blasphemy of the HOLY GHOST - the third person in the Godhead. Not of Jesus. The Bible says that it can be forgiven if a person blasphemes Jesus or God, but not the HOLY GHOST. Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the Gift of the Holy Ghost as described in the Bible. Therefore, if people attribute tongues to the devil, they are attributing the workings of the Holy Ghost to the devil. That is blasphemy and can not or will not be forgiven. That is what I meant by my statement above, just to make it clear.
I stay on the cautious side and never say anything at all against the Holy Ghost and against tongues.
What I hear from Joyce Meyer is what I see on TV - her 30 minute daily shows. I guess they are current seminars. I'm not sure, but I would think that they are. I haven't heard anything different than what I heard in her old seminars and tape teachings of 20 years ago.
She has actually helped and encouraged me because I can relate to many of her life experiences. I see how she overcame them through prayer and study of the Word of God. If she can overcome those things, then I can and so can others. Without the help of anti-depressants and psychotherapists. (Not to say that the use of these are bad or against the Bible. I just prefer not to use them and neither did Joyce.)
I use my own filter when I listen to any preacher or teacher whether they be on TV or in church, or if I read one of their books or watch them on the internet. I think probably most people do too.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/29/2009 1:36:50 AM
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michele_erin
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-"Words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow.
(Joyce Meyer, audio-clip, "Bible Answer-man," Hank Hanegraaff, January, 2003)
It is comments like these by these WF teachers, her especially, that have caused me to stumble greatly during this trial that I am in. Many of her teachings have caused me to think that because I have not said just the right prayer, or said it in the right way, God wouldn't hear me -- or if I said something just not right, that it was lack of faith on my part, thus hindering the Lord from being able to heal my body. Ridiculous? Right?
Her teachings and other WOF'ers have caused me to doubt my faith in Jesus Christ because of these facts, plus many more. Thankfully I have a husband who is grounded deeply in the word, and has been able to help me. We also moved to a church that wasn't bent toward WOF.
I mean, when the disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, what did Jesus tell them? The most famously recited prayer in today's life: The Lord's prayer -- part of which is "Your will be done". I'd been told that by praying "Your will be done" through this illness or through other trials, that it was a statement of lack of faith! How crazy is that? Jesus Himself tells his disciples to pray this -- was Jesus teaching them how to prayer faithless filled prayers? Absolutely not!
I absolutely will not listen to her teachings anymore for this reason. The saying that I've heard is that rat poison is 99% healthy. It's the 1% that will kill ya. So, are we going to eat rat poison since it IS 99% healthy. No. We find teachers who are grounded in the word of God, and have solid doctrines based upon biblical truths.
A great book that has helped me through this journey is one by Ron Rhoades -- the title of which escapes me. Basically he lays down the foundations that are essential to the Christian faith, and the items that are non-essentials -- those items that we can agree to disagree, but disagreeing won't mean we aren't saved. The core essentials of the Christian faith are what separate us from the cults, and I am so thankful to the Lord that He brought me to this place and continues to reveal His truth more and more each day -- HIS truth. Not Joyce Meyer's truth, or Joel Osteen's truth, or any other WOFer.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/29/2009 1:38:28 AM
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lw9
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quote:
I absolutely will not listen to her teachings anymore for this reason. The saying that I've heard is that rat poison is 99% healthy. It's the 1% that will kill ya. So, are we going to eat rat poison since it IS 99% healthy. No. We find teachers who are grounded in the word of God, and have solid doctrines based upon biblical truths.
AMEN!
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/25/2010 12:54:58 AM
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KenJacobsen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
I see how she overcame them through prayer and study of the Word of God. If she can overcome those things, then I can and so can others. Without the help of anti-depressants and psychotherapists.
But this is the problem with Joyce Meyer -she holds herself up as someone who has "overcome" but upon examination it's not by faith in Christ she has overcome but by her own efforts, specifically "prayer and the study of the Word of God". Meyer simply has no concept of real saving faith in Christ.
We don't overcome by our efforts but by putting our faith in Christ, whose efforts purchased salvation for the world. "We are more than overcomers through Him" not through what we do. This is what's so insidious about Meyer's "Christianity" -it's all about Joyce not about Jesus. Jesus is just a pretty garnish for Meyer's toxic doctrinal stew.
I've got a biblical critique of one of her books (Managing Your Emotions) up at http://www.joycevsjesus.wordpress.com and another author has a more indepth critique of two of Meyer's other books at http://www.scribd.com/doc/28663432
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/25/2010 11:09:08 AM
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evangelist01
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After looking at the pics of these homes her and her family live in it just saddens me ,i cant tel u how much..
As a child of the Lord and as one of His many servants and speaking for myself now,
how in ths world could I live like that and those around me suffering from lack..I couldnt live with myself..I just couldnt..and im not condemning her im just saying how could any of us as God's children do that and not be convicted in our hearts about it..
I dont know..I cant see it but I do know this,that we all fail the Lord in someway everday we live and breathe..and what I say to that is forgive us all Father forgive us all ..Forgive us and help us Lord to be the people O God that you have saved and called us to be,help us dear Lord help us your people in Christ' Your Son's Holy name amen and amen
_____________________________
In Christ' Service,
Evang.smith
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/25/2010 11:02:12 PM
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KenJacobsen
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What, I wonder would be wrong with condemning the wealth of televangelists like Joyce Meyer?
Jesus condemned the rich in general:
"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.” Luke 6:24
If this is what Christ says about those who may have obtained their wealth by "legitimate" means, shouldn't we condemn those who obtained their wealth by teaching false doctrines and exploiting Christians that much more?!
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/30/2010 7:37:54 PM
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teclils
Posts: 68
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KenJacobsen
What, I wonder would be wrong with condemning the wealth of televangelists like Joyce Meyer?
Jesus condemned the rich in general:
"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.” Luke 6:24
If this is what Christ says about those who may have obtained their wealth by "legitimate" means, shouldn't we condemn those who obtained their wealth by teaching false doctrines and exploiting Christians that much more?!
I am not saying Joyce Meyers is a false teacher or not but ...if GOD has such a problem with HIS people being rich then explain King David and King Solomon, Job to name a couple?
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/30/2010 9:27:02 PM
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michele_erin
Posts: 268
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quote:
I am not saying Joyce Meyers is a false teacher or not but ...if GOD has such a problem with HIS people being rich then explain King David and King Solomon, Job to name a couple?
It is not a sin to be rich, but I think that it would depend how a person got their wealth. If it was done dishonestly, then that is a sin. I personally cannot judge Joyce Meyers' heart, only God can do that. Matt 7. But we are to judge her actions/teachings (John 7:24)
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/30/2010 11:01:26 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 124
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quote:
I am not saying Joyce Meyers is a false teacher or not but ...if GOD has such a problem with HIS people being rich then explain King David and King Solomon, Job to name a couple?
Jesus, in case you weren't aware, issued in a new era. What he said and did takes precedence over David, Solomon or Job, "inasmuch as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house".
And Joyce Meyer never claims to be a follower of David, Solomon or Job but of Christ.
Jesus not only says:
"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.” Luke 6:24
He also says:
"Verily I say unto you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 19:23
James reiterates:
“Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. ... Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire.” James 5:3
It's not God who has a problem with the rich it's the rich, or those who want to be, who have a problem with God.
"But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition." 1 Timothy 6:9
Rich televangelists like Meyer, who have gotten wealthy by exploiting Christians, use people like Solomon as cover while rejecting the very teachings of the Christ they falsely claim to follow.
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/31/2010 7:41:09 AM
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luispinzon
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She is a servant of the Lord.
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/31/2010 3:40:29 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1664
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From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: luispinzon
She is a servant of the Lord.
I suggest before making that statement you browse through the 41 pages of this thread. There a dozens of examples highlighting her false teaching
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/1/2010 12:58:37 PM
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teclils
Posts: 68
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KenJacobsen
Rich televangelists like Meyer, who have gotten wealthy by exploiting Christians, use people like Solomon as cover while rejecting the very teachings of the Christ they falsely claim to follow.
do you have tangible facts that this is true?
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/1/2010 5:58:39 PM
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KenJacobsen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
do you have tangible facts that this is true?
I'm not sure what you're referring to -that Meyer has exploited Christians for money? That should be obvious to anyone.
If you're referring to her rejection of the teachings of Christ, I can refer you again to my examination of her teachings at http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com -Meyer's teachings contradict the most basic principles of the gospel. Chapter 2, "Blessed by Mammon" examines her teaching on money. There's also a link at the end to a much longer critique by another author in pdf format.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/2/2010 2:12:28 PM
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KenJacobsen
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I'd like to add something else;
A lot of people have said Meyer shouldn't be criticized based on outdated tapes and someone should read her books to make a fair critique.
Well, I've spent the last several months doing just that.
I began with "Managing Your Emotions" last fall, which a neighbor gave me. I've focused on that since it seems fairly representative of Meyer's books in general. It's been the basis from which I've looked very closely at her teachings and examined them thoroughly compared not just to the Bible but to "secular" self-help writers.
I remember seeing Meyer on television for the first time years ago and being impressed by her folksy "down to earth" speaking style, despite her glitzy outfits and jewelry. But I was rather shocked to see a large display ad of her most recent book on a bus one day -there was no hint in the ad that there was anything having to do with Christ, God or the Bible on the ad, it was all about "you" -Meyer is going to take YOU where YOU want to be.
So here's my conclusion after spending a huge amount of time on this: Meyer is an anti-christ preaching an anti-gospel.
Although Meyer is completely ignorant of the most basic principles of the gospel, she's wise as a serpent when it comes to pulling in the money. When the government started looking into the obscene salary her "ministry" paid her, she moved her major income source, her books, from within her “ministry” to a major national publisher. This means she can brag that she’s taken a “pay cut” from almost a million a year to a mere $250,000, while never having to reveal how many millions her books are making her from her publisher. It also means that she is toning down any potentially unpopular religious parts (like those wacky WOF teachings) to appeal to a broader market.
Her teachings are even more insidious now than they were when she was openly Word of Faith because she's carefully hidden her more deceptive doctrines within her writings. But they’re still there, deceiving millions into believing that self-faith, self-esteem, self-love, and self-aggrandisement are the purpose of the gospel, and that Jesus is in the end nothing more than a tool to get you there.
Meyer starts with the tropes of the self-help gurus and pop psychologists, adds a layer of homespun horse sense, encloses it all in a flakey crust of pious platitudes, and sprinkles generously with sweet-tasting Bible verses -but deep inside it all is a core of pure spiritual poison.
If you want to examine my conclusions please see, like I’ve mentioned, what I’ve written so far at http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com and there’s also a link at the bottom to another great indepth examination of Meyer's writings by a different author, Debbie Dewar from christiandiscernment.com.
If you do read the Wordpress piece, please leave a comment and let me know!
< Message edited by KenJacobsen -- 4/2/2010 7:11:26 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/2/2010 3:23:40 PM
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michele_erin
Posts: 268
Joined: 5/8/2006
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quote:
I'd like to add something else;
A lot of people have said Meyer shouldn't be criticized based on outdated tapes and someone should read her books to make a fair critique.
Well, I've spent the last several months doing just that.
I began with "Managing Your Emotions" last fall, which a neighbor gave me. I've focused on that since it seems fairly representative of Meyer's books in general. It's been the basis from which I've looked very closely at her teachings and examined them thoroughly compared not just to the Bible but to other self-help writers.
I remember seeing Meyer on television for the first time years ago and being impressed by her folksy "down to earth" speaking style, despite her glitzy outfits and jewelry. But I was rather shocked to see a large display ad of her most recent book on a bus one day -there was no hint in the ad that there was anything having to do with Christ, God or the Bible on the ad, it was all about "you" -Meyer is going to take YOU where YOU want to be.
So here's my conclusion after spending a huge amount of time on this: Meyer is an anti-christ preaching an anti-gospel.
Although Meyer is completely ignorant of the most basic principles of the gospel, she's wise as a serpent when it comes to pulling in the money. When the government started looking into the obscene salary her "ministry" paid her, she moved her major income source, her books, from within her “ministry” to a major national publisher. This means she can brag that she’s taken a “pay cut” from over a million a year to a mere $250,000, while never having to reveal how many millions her books are making her from her publisher. It also means that she is toning down any potentially unpopular religious parts (like those wacky WOF teachings) to appeal to a broader market.
Her teachings are even more insidious now than they were when she was openly Word of Faith because she's carefully hidden her more deceptive doctrines within her writings. But they’re still there, deceiving millions into believing that self-faith, self-esteem, self-love, and self-aggrandisement are the purpose of the gospel, and that Jesus is in the end nothing more than a tool to get you there.
Meyer starts with the tropes of the self-help gurus and pop psychologists, adds a layer of homespun horse sense, encloses it all in a flakey crust of pious platitudes, and sprinkles generously with sweet-tasting Bible verses -but deep inside it all is a core of pure spiritual poison.
If you want to examine my conclusions please see, like I’ve mentioned, what I’ve written so far at http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com and there’s also a link at the bottom to another great indepth examination of Meyer's writings by a different author, Debbie Dewar from christiandiscernment.com.
If you do read the Wordpress piece, please leave a comment and let me know!
Ken -- this was very well written and gave some really good information. I read part of the link and saved it for later, but it is very good. I sent the link to a friend of mine who is hooked on Meyers, and am hoping she reads it.
Thank you!
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/2/2010 3:37:05 PM
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KenJacobsen
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Thank you very much!! I really appreciate the feedback. I've put a lot of time into the effort so I hope it's useful.
I used to be involved in a fundamentalist, southern-style Pentecostal church years ago, long before Joyce Meyer came along, and it's remarkable to me how similar she is to what they were teaching. It took me years to finally learn it, but the most crucial teaching that was missing with them was the basic, essential doctrine of salvation by faith. Meyer is just like them in that she simply does not grasp it.
I’d also like to send out a big THANK YOU to Bro Shane, Earthless, Soxfan, Kat D and everyone else who has taken the time to expose the WOF origins and errors of Meyer’s teachings, and for keeping on following up after all these posts! I’d always thought her teachings, like those of that church I used to go to, had just oozed out of some swamp in the backwoods, so exposing their true roots is really helpful to everyone.
< Message edited by KenJacobsen -- 4/3/2010 4:58:08 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/3/2010 5:33:44 PM
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KenJacobsen
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By the way, I've actually read every page of this thread!!
I'd like to correct a past misleading post.
In post #882 on p 36, someone wrote that the St Louis Times article of Nov 15 2003 that exposed Meyer's outrageous spending of her "ministry"'s money had been "retracted". St Louis Times wrote “We stand by reporting done in a four-part series on the ministry published in November 2003.” (http://www.rickross.com/reference/meyer/meyer24.html). There was no retraction at all, there was only a minor correction.
The article is up at http://tinyurl.com/2ocyke for anyone interested in documentation of Meyer's voracious self indulgence.
The articles that were “retracted” were written two years later and haven’t been quoted in this thread.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/3/2010 7:42:33 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2250
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
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I was been exposed to the abuse of Norman Vincent Peales thinking through Dr. Robert Schuller at before his church had a TV program.
The similarity between word of faith and the power of positive thinking is so close they are at least kissing cousins.
I appreciate anything that is done to expose the exodus from orthodoxy that has happened in the Name of Jesus over the past 170 years specifically, in our country.
Keep on Truckin' dude!
quote:
ORIGINAL: KenJacobsen
Thank you very much!! I really appreciate the feedback. I've put a lot of time into the effort so I hope it's useful.
I used to be involved in a fundamentalist, southern-style Pentecostal church years ago, long before Joyce Meyer came along, and it's remarkable to me how similar she is to what they were teaching. It took me years to finally learn it, but the most crucial teaching that was missing with them was the basic, essential doctrine of salvation by faith. Meyer is just like them in that she simply does not grasp it.
I’d also like to send out a big THANK YOU to Bro Shane, Earthless, Soxfan, Kat D and everyone else who has taken the time to expose the WOF origins and errors of Meyer’s teachings, and for keeping on following up after all these posts! I’d always thought her teachings, like those of that church I used to go to, had just oozed out of some swamp in the backwoods, so exposing their true roots is really helpful to everyone.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/3/2010 7:47:11 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 2716
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From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
I appreciate anything that is done to expose the exodus from orthodoxy that has happened in the Name of Jesus over the past 170 years specifically, in our country.
I second that. Its refreshing to have someone come in here who a) knows what they are talking about and b) doesn't just say they like Joyce Meyer and other WOFers and/or wants everyone to prove her errant teachings without at least perusing the thread.
_____________________________
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/3/2010 11:09:48 PM
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KenJacobsen
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Thanks folks.
There's so much more that could be said about Meyer.
For example, Meyer’s supporters in this thread have mentioned how admirable it was of Meyer to buy a house for her parents despite the fact that she claims her father (on whom she blames her own bad behavior) had sexually molested her when she was a child.
Just how admirable this action actually was is pointed out indirectly in the St Louis Post Dispatch article above. Out of the millions in salary they’ve made from her “ministry”, Meyer and her husband bought her parents the house for $130,000 in 2000. They also bought their security guard a house for $165,000, one for their friends for $334,000, a summer home for themselves for $500,000, and a boat for the summer home for $105,000.
In that context, Meyer’s gift to her parents could be described as more like “chump change” than the noble example of love and generosity that Meyer and her followers claim it is.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/5/2010 1:23:01 AM
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KenJacobsen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Joyce Meyer, like many other WoF'ers assign a "demon of" or "spirit of" to everything. As others have noted, there is NO scriptual proof of this. THey teach that a person can have a spirit of poverty, or a demon of poor health.
Meyer's still at it, too. I was looking at the Meyer website and downloaded a pdf called "Exposing Strife".
She wants $6 for it on her website https://shop.joycemeyer.org/eStore/Products/JMM/PID-TN6.aspx but somehow I came across it elsewhere where it's free, I guess here: www.jmmindia.org/JMMSITE/.../TN5%20-%20EXPOSING%20STRIFE.pdf
Anyway, on p 29 is an actual ILLUSTRATION of her "Demon of Strife"! I wonder how she got the image -did she conjure the "demon" so it would pose for the illustrator?
I wish I could paste it in here somehow.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/5/2010 2:22:58 PM
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teclils
Posts: 68
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KenJacobsen
I'd like to add something else;
A lot of people have said Meyer shouldn't be criticized based on outdated tapes and someone should read her books to make a fair critique.
Well, I've spent the last several months doing just that.
I began with "Managing Your Emotions" last fall, which a neighbor gave me. I've focused on that since it seems fairly representative of Meyer's books in general. It's been the basis from which I've looked very closely at her teachings and examined them thoroughly compared not just to the Bible but to "secular" self-help writers.
I remember seeing Meyer on television for the first time years ago and being impressed by her folksy "down to earth" speaking style, despite her glitzy outfits and jewelry. But I was rather shocked to see a large display ad of her most recent book on a bus one day -there was no hint in the ad that there was anything having to do with Christ, God or the Bible on the ad, it was all about "you" -Meyer is going to take YOU where YOU want to be.
So here's my conclusion after spending a huge amount of time on this: Meyer is an anti-christ preaching an anti-gospel.
Although Meyer is completely ignorant of the most basic principles of the gospel, she's wise as a serpent when it comes to pulling in the money. When the government started looking into the obscene salary her "ministry" paid her, she moved her major income source, her books, from within her “ministry” to a major national publisher. This means she can brag that she’s taken a “pay cut” from almost a million a year to a mere $250,000, while never having to reveal how many millions her books are making her from her publisher. It also means that she is toning down any potentially unpopular religious parts (like those wacky WOF teachings) to appeal to a broader market.
Her teachings are even more insidious now than they were when she was openly Word of Faith because she's carefully hidden her more deceptive doctrines within her writings. But they’re still there, deceiving millions into believing that self-faith, self-esteem, self-love, and self-aggrandisement are the purpose of the gospel, and that Jesus is in the end nothing more than a tool to get you there.
Meyer starts with the tropes of the self-help gurus and pop psychologists, adds a layer of homespun horse sense, encloses it all in a flakey crust of pious platitudes, and sprinkles generously with sweet-tasting Bible verses -but deep inside it all is a core of pure spiritual poison.
If you want to examine my conclusions please see, like I’ve mentioned, what I’ve written so far at http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com and there’s also a link at the bottom to another great indepth examination of Meyer's writings by a different author, Debbie Dewar from christiandiscernment.com.
If you do read the Wordpress piece, please leave a comment and let me know!
How do you not know that she wasn't already in the works of moving her publications to publisher before the investigation... just because you say so does not give me facts.
"Her teachings are even more insidious now than they were when she was openly Word of Faith because she's carefully hidden her more deceptive doctrines within her writings. But they’re still there, deceiving millions into believing that self-faith, self-esteem, self-love, and self-aggrandisement are the purpose of the gospel, and that Jesus is in the end nothing more than a tool to get you there"
So what you are saying is that we are not have self esteem and not to like ourselves in any way? I am confused ...I thought JESUS was the DOOR?
it is mentioned often here on this forum about WOF and it is all self worship...I don't believe that I don't worship myself in fact the LORD shown me where sitting in a pity party regarding my life and my self (no body like me every body hates me) is self worship and it is a SIN. I don't self worship but I don't hate myself either nor do I feel or think I am any better than anyone else..
I also don't believe one should make accusations toward someone without facts. just because some ONE says such and such doesn't mean it is so...the Pharisees said JESUS was the doing the works of the devil because HE was not following the LAW...that was not fact that was them saying such and sucn.
I believe this for everyone ..all people...
until you can show me facts I will not beleive...just the way I am
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/5/2010 8:00:53 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 124
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
So what you are saying is that we are not have self esteem and not to like ourselves in any way? I am confused ...I thought JESUS was the DOOR?
Thank you for bringing this up, since I wanted to expand on it.
Let me address your second point first -if you take the time to read at least Chapter 3 of my wordpress document on Meyer http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com "I Love Me This I Know, Joyce Meyer Tells Me So", I address thoroughly the issue of Meyer's teaching of redemption through self-love.
Jesus is not the Door to self-anything but to God -"No one comes to the Father" Jesus says, "except through me". Jesus didn't die on the cross to improve our self esteem but to atone for our sins and to reconcile us not with ourselves but with God.
The Debbie Dewar article deals with the same topic at greater length -you can download it also from Scribd at http://www.scribd.com/doc/28663432/A-Critique-of-Beauty-for-Ashes-and-Approval-Addiction-by-Joyce-Meyer.
The first question, concerning Meyer's "pay cut", I'll address in my next post since I still need to pull together more links for documentation.
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